found one more restriction on the 2009 V
12-31-2008, 10:07 AM
#1
found one more restriction on the 2009 V The air tube on the top for the airfilter tubing is 4inch but has some wierd sound baffles on it that kind of throws off the look of the engine compartment. I had prevously pulled the air filter off put in a smooth mandrel bent 4 inch 90 which fits into the exact stock location and tried another dynopull to see if there was a gain and there was NOT.... So a different tube really isnt needed.
So, Here are some pics of the airbox assembly. You can see that it is the EXACT same one from a v6 cts???? HMM The filter element is the exact one also but the filter itself dont seem to be the hold up on restricting power.
The inlet for the bottom feeding the filter itself is too small. So if you remove it from the car and look, there is a HUGE area for it to pull air from seperate from the engine compartment. Also you can pull the brake ducting and T it off from that inlet to allow even more air flowing up into the filter. Forced like the brake is.
I removed the sound deadener inside the top filter/maf hat. And cut off the bottom of the air filter assembly as shown. It makes the blower just a little more louder at WOT. I think it sounds better now. Also the response of the car is ALOT more instant. Especially at 5000 and up rpms.
Dyno gained about 4.6 hp by cutting it out. BUT only at 4600 rpms and higher.
So, i guess that shows that the stock box in stock form is a little bit of a bottleneck.. But the way it looks and the amount of room available, an aftermarket box wont make much difference over the stock one with the bottom just cut off.
Ill post pics in a second.
So, Here are some pics of the airbox assembly. You can see that it is the EXACT same one from a v6 cts???? HMM The filter element is the exact one also but the filter itself dont seem to be the hold up on restricting power.
The inlet for the bottom feeding the filter itself is too small. So if you remove it from the car and look, there is a HUGE area for it to pull air from seperate from the engine compartment. Also you can pull the brake ducting and T it off from that inlet to allow even more air flowing up into the filter. Forced like the brake is.
I removed the sound deadener inside the top filter/maf hat. And cut off the bottom of the air filter assembly as shown. It makes the blower just a little more louder at WOT. I think it sounds better now. Also the response of the car is ALOT more instant. Especially at 5000 and up rpms.
Dyno gained about 4.6 hp by cutting it out. BUT only at 4600 rpms and higher.
So, i guess that shows that the stock box in stock form is a little bit of a bottleneck.. But the way it looks and the amount of room available, an aftermarket box wont make much difference over the stock one with the bottom just cut off.
Ill post pics in a second.
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12-31-2008, 09:19 PM
#9
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Nice! I keep looking forward to what you are going to do next with the car. I stopped by a Cadillac dealer here in Houston last night and chatted with the owner who is driving one of the six they are getting. Supposedly they've sold three so far, one for $10K over sticker, one for $6K over and not sure on the third. As awesome as the car is, no way in hell I'm paying over sticker for it.
Just registered for the board too ("TX SS").
Just registered for the board too ("TX SS").
01-01-2009, 03:10 PM
#10
Thanks guys. Yeah the car has been pretty fun to mess with. The car is alot louder in respect to blower noise with that stuff cut out. It sounds like a regular maggy now. It is amazing how much noise comes back thru the throttle body..
I tried a smooth mandrel bent 4 inch tube in place of that stock one, it made 0, yes zero hp difference one way or the other.... i figured it would gain at least on the top end but it didnt. I guess the air being trapped in those points would just make a air cushin and make the incoming air just flow over it... It did make it a "Little" more louder blower noise though, but i just put the stock one back on and left it that way for now..
Im going to be tracking down a TVS2300 assembly from a zr1 next.. To just see what bolting on the other blower with the more displacement will do..
Then come porting / modifying the tvs1900 i pulled off...
Ill keep modding it till it breaks.. I have a spare 454 ci lsx block blower engine to dump in her when that blows...... "the spare clone from the grey V i havent killed yet"
It should be a fun year for sure... It is nice to finally have a car that can handle the mods without fear of scrap metal flying every where........
I have a few camshafts i might try also. AND i MIGHT even set up and make it a REAL vvt motor.
I cant believe no other person is saying anything to gm about it not being a variable valve train motor even though it says it right on the window sticker as being one....
I pulled off all the front end of the motor and looked. there is NO CAM PHASER. So that means we dont have the motor they say....
An LSA motor is not a VVT engine.
VVT=Fun for blowers..
That is really why i wish they would have just used the northstar 4 cam engine and made it more cubes and tougher and put on the tvs1900 on it instead... I like 4 cam control....
I tried a smooth mandrel bent 4 inch tube in place of that stock one, it made 0, yes zero hp difference one way or the other.... i figured it would gain at least on the top end but it didnt. I guess the air being trapped in those points would just make a air cushin and make the incoming air just flow over it... It did make it a "Little" more louder blower noise though, but i just put the stock one back on and left it that way for now..
Im going to be tracking down a TVS2300 assembly from a zr1 next.. To just see what bolting on the other blower with the more displacement will do..
Then come porting / modifying the tvs1900 i pulled off...
Ill keep modding it till it breaks.. I have a spare 454 ci lsx block blower engine to dump in her when that blows...... "the spare clone from the grey V i havent killed yet"
It should be a fun year for sure... It is nice to finally have a car that can handle the mods without fear of scrap metal flying every where........
I have a few camshafts i might try also. AND i MIGHT even set up and make it a REAL vvt motor.
I cant believe no other person is saying anything to gm about it not being a variable valve train motor even though it says it right on the window sticker as being one....
I pulled off all the front end of the motor and looked. there is NO CAM PHASER. So that means we dont have the motor they say....
An LSA motor is not a VVT engine.
VVT=Fun for blowers..
That is really why i wish they would have just used the northstar 4 cam engine and made it more cubes and tougher and put on the tvs1900 on it instead... I like 4 cam control....
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01-02-2009, 10:59 AM
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I removed the sound deadener inside the top filter/maf hat.
That is not a sound deadener, it's a hydrocarbon absorber (part of evaporative emission control), and removing it can subject you to the penalties for defeating an emission control device. No restriction from this part anyway as it is out of the direct airflow path, so no need to remove.
Cutting base off air box, while allowing more airflow, will increase possibility of water ingestion which can lead to hydralic-lock of the engine. You decide if the few HP is worth the risk.
That is not a sound deadener, it's a hydrocarbon absorber (part of evaporative emission control), and removing it can subject you to the penalties for defeating an emission control device. No restriction from this part anyway as it is out of the direct airflow path, so no need to remove.
Cutting base off air box, while allowing more airflow, will increase possibility of water ingestion which can lead to hydralic-lock of the engine. You decide if the few HP is worth the risk.
01-02-2009, 11:31 AM
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I removed the sound deadener inside the top filter/maf hat.
That is not a sound deadener, it's a hydrocarbon absorber (part of evaporative emission control), and removing it can subject you to the penalties for defeating an emission control device. No restriction from this part anyway as it is out of the direct airflow path, so no need to remove.
Cutting base off air box, while allowing more airflow, will increase possibility of water ingestion which can lead to hydralic-lock of the engine. You decide if the few HP is worth the risk.
That is not a sound deadener, it's a hydrocarbon absorber (part of evaporative emission control), and removing it can subject you to the penalties for defeating an emission control device. No restriction from this part anyway as it is out of the direct airflow path, so no need to remove.
Cutting base off air box, while allowing more airflow, will increase possibility of water ingestion which can lead to hydralic-lock of the engine. You decide if the few HP is worth the risk.
You sound like a factory rep ****.
01-02-2009, 12:01 PM
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Don't misunderstand, I'm all for more power (you can never have too much....), I'm just stating facts.
There are many ways to increase power in the LSA, just don't expect them to come without penalty of decreased durability. However, in my experience, the more power you make, the less time you spend making that power as you just can't keep your foot in it that long.
There are many ways to increase power in the LSA, just don't expect them to come without penalty of decreased durability. However, in my experience, the more power you make, the less time you spend making that power as you just can't keep your foot in it that long.
01-02-2009, 12:52 PM
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But you stated the 'facts' in a way that sounded like a total buzz kill. Caveating the comments would be okay but all you indicated was that modding the airbox was against the fed laws and you might suck up water. Most us already know the facts and Dr Killjoy is never welcome.
01-02-2009, 01:00 PM
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Don't misunderstand, I'm all for more power (you can never have too much....), I'm just stating facts.
There are many ways to increase power in the LSA, just don't expect them to come without penalty of decreased durability. However, in my experience, the more power you make, the less time you spend making that power as you just can't keep your foot in it that long.
There are many ways to increase power in the LSA, just don't expect them to come without penalty of decreased durability. However, in my experience, the more power you make, the less time you spend making that power as you just can't keep your foot in it that long.
Well, you sound like you know all the ins and outs of the LSA engine. Why not share some LEGAL (of course) mods?
Did you have a hand in this? http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=gm
01-02-2009, 01:29 PM
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Yes, I know the ins & outs of the LSA - having spent considerable time with it.
A few tidbits - if someone starts making claims about anything over about 5hp with an exhaust system - raise the BS flag. Same goes for the induction systems (as dyno results above show). Now if sound increase is what your after, go for it. Just don't expect power to come along from changes to these systems.
Obviously, with SC, increasing boost is shortest path to power. If you look at the differences between LS9 & LSA, these are the differences required to maintain durability for a 100K powertrain warranty. If you are willing to 'own' the engine, there is obviously room to grow. How much is dependant on budget and willingness to change supporting systems for higher power levels.
A few tidbits - if someone starts making claims about anything over about 5hp with an exhaust system - raise the BS flag. Same goes for the induction systems (as dyno results above show). Now if sound increase is what your after, go for it. Just don't expect power to come along from changes to these systems.
Obviously, with SC, increasing boost is shortest path to power. If you look at the differences between LS9 & LSA, these are the differences required to maintain durability for a 100K powertrain warranty. If you are willing to 'own' the engine, there is obviously room to grow. How much is dependant on budget and willingness to change supporting systems for higher power levels.