B&M shifter
03-09-2012, 09:22 AM
#43
Ok...so I took a stroll down the electrical aisle at Home Depot yesterday and sure enough, found those pvc bushings. They are in the section that has the gray pvc electrical boxes. They are called a bushing, adapter, reducer, etc. Something like that. They come in different sizes. I picked up a couple 1/2 inch pieces for less than 50 cents each. Not sure if that's the size we'll need or not...that's why I only got two. I was going to run over to Ace Hardware to pick up the steel insert and needed them to check the size. But I read this one more time, and I believe you are telling us Cadzilla that those steel bushings are already in the rubber mounts and you just reused them.
03-09-2012, 12:14 PM
#44
Ok...so I took a stroll down the electrical aisle at Home Depot yesterday and sure enough, found those pvc bushings. They are in the section that has the gray pvc electrical boxes. They are called a bushing, adapter, reducer, etc. Something like that. They come in different sizes. I picked up a couple 1/2 inch pieces for less than 50 cents each. Not sure if that's the size we'll need or not...that's why I only got two. I was going to run over to Ace Hardware to pick up the steel insert and needed them to check the size. But I read this one more time, and I believe you are telling us Cadzilla that those steel bushings are already in the rubber mounts and you just reused them.
Yes you'll reuse the metal sleeve from the rubber bushing
03-09-2012, 12:55 PM
#45
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Ok...so I took a stroll down the electrical aisle at Home Depot yesterday and sure enough, found those pvc bushings. They are in the section that has the gray pvc electrical boxes. They are called a bushing, adapter, reducer, etc. Something like that. They come in different sizes. I picked up a couple 1/2 inch pieces for less than 50 cents each. Not sure if that's the size we'll need or not...that's why I only got two. I was going to run over to Ace Hardware to pick up the steel insert and needed them to check the size. But I read this one more time, and I believe you are telling us Cadzilla that those steel bushings are already in the rubber mounts and you just reused them.
03-10-2012, 01:18 AM
#46
I just measured it, there's nothing 1/2" about it although I for some reason recall them being called that in home depot. the inner diameter is ~5/8", and outer to the edge of the lip is ~1 1/8". It's probably about 1" deep. I didnt measure the linkage hole..sorry. what are you trying to do? fab some bushings? If so I can get more precise measurements but you really don't need them. These cheap things work fine...
I got the brass shifter cup isolator today. At first glance it felt too big to fit in the cup. I tried to test it and found that you'll have to trim the edges of the lip to get it down into the cup. I have not done that yet. It also seems that the shift lever wouldn't fit down into the brass isolator. After a couple of light taps, it appears it might go down in there, but ZERO clearance...and once it's down there I'm not sure how you'd get it off.. I know lube is probably necessary but not sure if I should try simple trans fluid or something like lithium grease.. It is the same diameter as the the stock (outer at least), I put one on top of the other to test that...
the brass isolator is taller, and thats ok because the stock isolator sits down 'in' the cup. It still seems like perhaps it would be 1/32 to 1/16 too tall for the lip to fit perfectly down into the recessed cup. The diameter does fit in there when you set it upside down, it just seems too tall.
The challenge is going to be deciding whether to test fit the lever into the isolator first, and then trying to line that up and tap the whole assembly from the top into the cup, or tap the isolator down into the cup and then line up the lever with the hole and try to tap the whole assembly down. I'll probably go with option 1 because I want the lever to sit in the bottom of the isolator for sure, even if it doesn't bottom out in the cup all the way..... pics of course
I got the brass shifter cup isolator today. At first glance it felt too big to fit in the cup. I tried to test it and found that you'll have to trim the edges of the lip to get it down into the cup. I have not done that yet. It also seems that the shift lever wouldn't fit down into the brass isolator. After a couple of light taps, it appears it might go down in there, but ZERO clearance...and once it's down there I'm not sure how you'd get it off.. I know lube is probably necessary but not sure if I should try simple trans fluid or something like lithium grease.. It is the same diameter as the the stock (outer at least), I put one on top of the other to test that...
the brass isolator is taller, and thats ok because the stock isolator sits down 'in' the cup. It still seems like perhaps it would be 1/32 to 1/16 too tall for the lip to fit perfectly down into the recessed cup. The diameter does fit in there when you set it upside down, it just seems too tall.
The challenge is going to be deciding whether to test fit the lever into the isolator first, and then trying to line that up and tap the whole assembly from the top into the cup, or tap the isolator down into the cup and then line up the lever with the hole and try to tap the whole assembly down. I'll probably go with option 1 because I want the lever to sit in the bottom of the isolator for sure, even if it doesn't bottom out in the cup all the way..... pics of course
03-10-2012, 01:24 AM
#47
So here is something that might interest you all. When I bought shifters from a GM parts vendor I was given the whole shifter assembly. When I bought it he told me my car had to have a certain code (I think it was MV4?) for this shifter to work but I didnt care b/c all I needed was the shifter stalk.
Now to my point. I have only seen in pictures that the shifter arm is round and only attaches to one side which looks a little flimsy to me. The arms that I have connect to both sides of the tran link. Also it is flat bent heavy guage metal instead of the round arm.
I have attached a pic to show you what I talking about. I really dont know if it will help but by the look of it it will IMO.
You can see in the pic there is one end with no bushing that connects to the lower part of your shifter stalk while the other end with hard "plastic" bushings connects to the trans.
I have about ten of these laying around so send me an offer if you want one of these.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/001b7c3c.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/dacadd36.jpg
Now to my point. I have only seen in pictures that the shifter arm is round and only attaches to one side which looks a little flimsy to me. The arms that I have connect to both sides of the tran link. Also it is flat bent heavy guage metal instead of the round arm.
I have attached a pic to show you what I talking about. I really dont know if it will help but by the look of it it will IMO.
You can see in the pic there is one end with no bushing that connects to the lower part of your shifter stalk while the other end with hard "plastic" bushings connects to the trans.
I have about ten of these laying around so send me an offer if you want one of these.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/001b7c3c.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...c/dacadd36.jpg
03-10-2012, 08:43 PM
#48
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I just measured it, there's nothing 1/2" about it although I for some reason recall them being called that in home depot. the inner diameter is ~5/8", and outer to the edge of the lip is ~1 1/8". It's probably about 1" deep. I didnt measure the linkage hole..sorry. what are you trying to do? fab some bushings? If so I can get more precise measurements but you really don't need them. These cheap things work fine...
03-11-2012, 10:48 PM
#49
here are a couple more pics of them. You want to cut them so that 3/8in is left on each, not including the lip. (the linkage hole is right at 3/4 inch wide). one note- the "inner" metal sleeve doesn't extend the entire width of the linkage. I positioned mine on the outer edge of the hole.
the isolator fit in the cup perfectly once I shaved just a small amount off the edge of the lip. The lever went down in with some taps on the bottom of the cup to drive it in there. I added a drop of lithium grease to the ball of the lever beforehand. Once on, it was very stiff. I grabbed the isolator with some vice grips and worked it around until it moved freely. Overall, nice piece.
Now that it was attached I bolted everything back together to see where I stood. I noticed that there was some play where the brass bushings went into the swivel piece. I originally thought it was the center being bored out too much, but once I realized it was them actually moving in the housing, I went ahead and jwelded them in there...no more play from that. Once I that was dry I used a c clamp to pull the pin through the housing. It wouldn't go all the way so I just tapped it with a wrench for the last 1/8 inch and attached the clip.
I also noticed what I thought was play in my b&m base. If you have a b&m, you remember it being held in place by a snap ring. I noticed that there was a tiny amount of up/down play, so I decided to take the whole shifter apart. I didn't get any pics of this but I removed the snap ring in the bottom of the base and pushed the whole ball socket assembly out. I noticed that the outer bushing that the ball rolls in was cracked in half, but since it is normally held in the base it didn't cause that much of a problem. I tried to add another snap ring to both the base and the shaft, but there was not enough clearance. In the end, there isn't much play to be attributed here, maybe 1/64 to 1/32 inch, at best....so I left it alone. The worst part was cutting off an inch of dynamat I had wrapped along the entire shaft which I lost of course...good thing I just scored a bulk pack off amazon, so I have some more handy. Doing this btw, takes almost all the noise and buzz out of having an all-metal shifter.
So, this left me with only a small amount of play...nothing really from the shifter or linkage now...it's all inside the trans at this point.
There is a small amount of play, basically all that's left, in the offset levers...the shift cup piece is held onto these front and rear offset levers with roll pins.
I thought these might be loose, but upon moving it back and forth, you can tell that it's tight on there and the play is coming from some sort of backlash where one of these two levers connects inside the trans....so I abandoned that effort.
It is true that the shift detent ball that is in the bolt assembly doesn't have anything to do with the "play" of the shifter in regards to limiting it, but it certainly seems if the end extended a bit further, it could take up some of this play. I actually took mine out and tested it, it didn't seem like it was loose, but it did have a bit of play in it. If it were tighter, it would contain that movement of the offset rail a bit more..
quite possibly there is a tiny bit of room created where over time, the metal fatigued where the ball meets the offset rail, and the movement occurs here..not sure.
.Im not sure at this point if I'll get a new one just to test this theory out, I'd rather get the car back together instead of lose another week waiting on a part. I can always change this on the fly without removing the entire trans. It's very easy.
To summarize, I've pretty much done everything there is to do with this thing except tear down the trans to find the last bit of movement in that arm. What's left is about 1/8 to 3/16 in of play at the ****. I put a ruler behind the shift stalk with a center line drawn in it, and moved the lever back and forth, it was hard to tell exactly. Regardless, before I went down this path I had a good half inch or more of play, so this was a good improvement and really firmed things up.
I reassembled everything today to see how much jbwelding those brass bushings in helped, and it certainly improved things a bit more. I took a video to try and demonstrate the results--Optically it seems like there's more play than what it 'feels' like because my hand moves more than the actual lever does. It was hard to hold the linkage with my knee(s) so I could lose a hand to film. My old **** and boot makes a guest appearance for the video. pos rattles at the end, just like I remembered it...
http://youtu.be/Fh-YfQnliKM
here's a video I took of the shifter in the car about a year ago...you can't really see the side to side slop very well but it's there. That is mostly gone now.
http://youtu.be/pDi9dvZGsGM
the isolator fit in the cup perfectly once I shaved just a small amount off the edge of the lip. The lever went down in with some taps on the bottom of the cup to drive it in there. I added a drop of lithium grease to the ball of the lever beforehand. Once on, it was very stiff. I grabbed the isolator with some vice grips and worked it around until it moved freely. Overall, nice piece.
Now that it was attached I bolted everything back together to see where I stood. I noticed that there was some play where the brass bushings went into the swivel piece. I originally thought it was the center being bored out too much, but once I realized it was them actually moving in the housing, I went ahead and jwelded them in there...no more play from that. Once I that was dry I used a c clamp to pull the pin through the housing. It wouldn't go all the way so I just tapped it with a wrench for the last 1/8 inch and attached the clip.
I also noticed what I thought was play in my b&m base. If you have a b&m, you remember it being held in place by a snap ring. I noticed that there was a tiny amount of up/down play, so I decided to take the whole shifter apart. I didn't get any pics of this but I removed the snap ring in the bottom of the base and pushed the whole ball socket assembly out. I noticed that the outer bushing that the ball rolls in was cracked in half, but since it is normally held in the base it didn't cause that much of a problem. I tried to add another snap ring to both the base and the shaft, but there was not enough clearance. In the end, there isn't much play to be attributed here, maybe 1/64 to 1/32 inch, at best....so I left it alone. The worst part was cutting off an inch of dynamat I had wrapped along the entire shaft which I lost of course...good thing I just scored a bulk pack off amazon, so I have some more handy. Doing this btw, takes almost all the noise and buzz out of having an all-metal shifter.
So, this left me with only a small amount of play...nothing really from the shifter or linkage now...it's all inside the trans at this point.
There is a small amount of play, basically all that's left, in the offset levers...the shift cup piece is held onto these front and rear offset levers with roll pins.
I thought these might be loose, but upon moving it back and forth, you can tell that it's tight on there and the play is coming from some sort of backlash where one of these two levers connects inside the trans....so I abandoned that effort.
It is true that the shift detent ball that is in the bolt assembly doesn't have anything to do with the "play" of the shifter in regards to limiting it, but it certainly seems if the end extended a bit further, it could take up some of this play. I actually took mine out and tested it, it didn't seem like it was loose, but it did have a bit of play in it. If it were tighter, it would contain that movement of the offset rail a bit more..
quite possibly there is a tiny bit of room created where over time, the metal fatigued where the ball meets the offset rail, and the movement occurs here..not sure.
.Im not sure at this point if I'll get a new one just to test this theory out, I'd rather get the car back together instead of lose another week waiting on a part. I can always change this on the fly without removing the entire trans. It's very easy.
To summarize, I've pretty much done everything there is to do with this thing except tear down the trans to find the last bit of movement in that arm. What's left is about 1/8 to 3/16 in of play at the ****. I put a ruler behind the shift stalk with a center line drawn in it, and moved the lever back and forth, it was hard to tell exactly. Regardless, before I went down this path I had a good half inch or more of play, so this was a good improvement and really firmed things up.
I reassembled everything today to see how much jbwelding those brass bushings in helped, and it certainly improved things a bit more. I took a video to try and demonstrate the results--Optically it seems like there's more play than what it 'feels' like because my hand moves more than the actual lever does. It was hard to hold the linkage with my knee(s) so I could lose a hand to film. My old **** and boot makes a guest appearance for the video. pos rattles at the end, just like I remembered it...
http://youtu.be/Fh-YfQnliKM
here's a video I took of the shifter in the car about a year ago...you can't really see the side to side slop very well but it's there. That is mostly gone now.
http://youtu.be/pDi9dvZGsGM
Last edited by Cadzilla; 03-12-2012 at 12:04 AM.
03-12-2012, 10:21 AM
#51
hmm, there is a ****-ton of play in neutral if you have in-gear slop.., The purpose was just for everyone to see how good it's gonna get.
I'm 99% sure in every gear it's solid, no play. I can take a video of that later.
Slop in gear is 100% linkage play, which I've eliminated.
I'm 99% sure in every gear it's solid, no play. I can take a video of that later.
Slop in gear is 100% linkage play, which I've eliminated.
Last edited by Cadzilla; 03-12-2012 at 10:27 AM.
03-12-2012, 11:25 AM
#52
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Wow, you're the man, thanks for all this. Would you say that the isolator cup is a must-do or can you get away without it? Since I'm not doing this work myself and won't be there for the work, I'd rather not complicate the procedure too much for the shop.
03-13-2012, 12:03 AM
#53
I know what you're speaking of, and it's the huge amount of slop even when in gear. You know when this shifter is in gear...it doesn't move. I'm 'trying' to make it move in the video. In the real world, I won't be muscling it like that.
I put the trans back in tonight, I'll get another video from in the car when it's all mounted up.
http://youtu.be/v1_hTxrXjK0
03-13-2012, 12:12 AM
#54
The the plastic one that's in there isn't too bad, it's very high strength. As long as you haven't spent the years powershifting, it should still be in good shape.
I think you'll be happy/content with the other things being done...it certainly made my b&m feel more like it did when I installed it back on 08. I only had 20k miles when I put it in whereas now I have 67k.
The only downside is that with each little thing you do to improve, it makes you want to drill for that last bit of play...but if you don't have the time to let the car sit while you tinker with it you have to compromise.
03-14-2012, 11:45 PM
#58
Lol, I paint my fingernails.. just didn't want you guys to see it..
I put the shifter back in tonight. It's very nice, but that last ~1/8 inch of play in neutral is pissing me off. Maybe I just need to drive it.
Maybe I have ocd.
I should have her back on the road this weekend if I can get the other issues sorted out.
I put the shifter back in tonight. It's very nice, but that last ~1/8 inch of play in neutral is pissing me off. Maybe I just need to drive it.
Maybe I have ocd.
I should have her back on the road this weekend if I can get the other issues sorted out.
03-15-2012, 08:59 AM
#59
I wear the same gloves. Buy them by the case. Best thing I ever did for my hands. The good techs I know wear them as well. Nothing in this world worse than watching a greasy tech crawl into my wife's 'Benz for a test drive. Just so unprofessional...and will cost the shop a ton of money if they have to clean or replace interiors because some grease ball couldn't keep his hands clean.
03-15-2012, 09:01 AM
#60
Cadzilla...there needs to be SOME play. Think about it...the shifter would always have pressure on it somewhere if it didn't. I think you are about as good as you can get it...and I am very very impressed.