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LS2 Dyno Results: Headers, FAST 102

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Old 04-30-2012, 12:47 PM   #1
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Default LS2 Dyno Results: Headers, FAST 102

After a successful install of Kooks 1 3/4" with HF cats and a FAST 102 ported by Tony Mamo at AFR, the car posted some decent numbers.

My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.

Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.

While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.
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LS2 Dyno Results: Headers, FAST 102-2007_cts-v_hdrs-fast102_04302012_1250.jpg  
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:24 PM   #2
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i'd say cam it and be done with it. Your not gonna get much from anything else, bolt on wise. Heads are expensive
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudesweet View Post
After a successful install of Kooks 1 3/4" with HF cats and a FAST 102 ported by Tony Mamo at AFR, the car posted some decent numbers.

My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.

Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.

While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.

Nice numbers!!

I second the cam...you should end up around 420RWHP with a very streetable cam.

Couple of questions -

How much was the FAST 102?
What launch technique did you use to get that 13.1/111 1/4 time?
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownLS1 View Post
Nice numbers!!

I second the cam...you should end up around 420RWHP with a very streetable cam.

Couple of questions -

How much was the FAST 102?
What launch technique did you use to get that 13.1/111 1/4 time?
I'd say you'll spend between $1,200 & $1,500 on a ported and painted FAST 102 depending on where you get it and what you do to it. That said, call Tony or PM him directly to get some pricing. Looking back, I would have only purchased that if I knew I was going to get a cam...especially heads and cam...for sure. I still may, but less likely. Regardless, the header/FAST combo made decent numbers.

As far as my launching, I just squeeze the throttle and go. I leave everything alone including TC. And that's the reason I didn't get a 12.xx time with a 111 trap. I'm too nervous about breaking the rear end. So nice and easy for me. It was also very cold...and the -900 DA was most helpful.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudesweet View Post
After a successful install of Kooks 1 3/4" with HF cats and a FAST 102 ported by Tony Mamo at AFR, the car posted some decent numbers.

My baseline numbers (K&N CAI only) netted 336 RWHP & 335 TQ untuned.

Today the car did 381 RWHP & 368 TQ. The best run came in at 385/380, but the car didn't like it, and some timing was pulled back out of it. Better safe than sorry. So that's +45rwhp/+33tq.

While I'm happy with the results, the biggest question mark will be realizing the potential of that FAST 102. I really don't want to go much further with the car; it's my daily driver and I'd rather save the $ for a V2. But I think a small cam is in my future to seal the deal.
Is the fast 102 really only worth about 5hp on a stock ls2 with headers? Does the fast or any other ported intake require head porting/different heads or cam to really provide any meaningful gains?
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:13 PM   #6
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the fast is worth it WITH supporting mods. a cam being one of them
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:29 PM   #7
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Definitely heads and cam. But a cam will likely add significant numbers.

That said, I don't think I only gained 5 hp with a FAST. Most of the dyno sheets I've seen with CAI/headers were in the mid-360 range. Not saying the FAST resulted in 15-20 either. Just think 5 is too low.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:42 PM   #8
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Great numbers!
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudesweet View Post
Definitely heads and cam. But a cam will likely add significant numbers.

That said, I don't think I only gained 5 hp with a FAST. Most of the dyno sheets I've seen with CAI/headers were in the mid-360 range. Not saying the FAST resulted in 15-20 either. Just think 5 is too low.
Mid 360 sounds right for the ls6 thought ls2 was >370.

Anyway this is ls2 with just headers and hiflo cats for reference. I know our cars and dyno's are not identical but these sheets appear very similiar at all rpm's.
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LS2 Dyno Results: Headers, FAST 102-07-dyno.jpg  
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:26 PM   #10
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my ls6 was somethere in the 380's with just headers and catback
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettg View Post
Mid 360 sounds right for the ls6 thought ls2 was >370.

Anyway this is ls2 with just headers and hiflo cats for reference. I know our cars and dyno's are not identical but these sheets appear very similiar at all rpm's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plastus85 View Post
my ls6 was somethere in the 380's with just headers and catback
Thanks for sharing, guys. Great comparisons, and exactly what I need to see. Gives me more "cam" inspiration.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:27 PM   #12
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Gotta remember. Dyno is just a tool. They all read different
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:35 PM   #13
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I knew the 102 would be a waste of 1500+ on a bolt on only ls2. Good numbers but id sell the 102 and put a ported LS2 back on it. The sale of the 102 will fund just about an entire cam swap.

BTW why is your graph so wavy? Car have fresh plugs and what kind/gap?
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:44 PM   #14
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New plugs, yes. TR55s at 0.6mm.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudesweet View Post
Thanks for sharing, guys. Great comparisons, and exactly what I need to see. Gives me more "cam" inspiration.
I will be interested in what a small cam brings you since you stated daily driver earlier. I am all about putting miles on the V averaging about 20-25k a year. Let us know all the details.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:14 PM   #16
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I'm thinking about a G5X1 cam from LG Motorsports...on a 114 LSA. Or a cam with similar numbers.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:37 AM   #17
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Those are solid gains Derrich....

Where is the overlay between the old baseline run and the new runs.

The power and especially the flat torque curve are excellent.

I also bet you there are areas in the curve comparison that show more than the peak gains you claim. The car should feel notably stronger, especially because I suspect the area under the curve gains and power past peak are pretty fat.

Considering a stock set of heads and a stock cam Im not sure how you could have realistically expected more.

Can you have your dyno shop overlay the baseline run and the run you posted above. Btw....how did you know the engine "didnt like" the tune when it was making 385 RWHP. The tuner might have simply opted to be overly safe which I see quite often. If the engine made more power it was happy or it wouldn't have made more power. Im not saying backing it off a degree or two is a bad idea, but I typically run my stuff where it makes the most power assuming the A/F ratio isn't crazy lean and there is no sign of knock retard.

Truthfully, if you weren't happy with these gains or the way the car feels now with the added power you didn't approach this in a sensible fashion. Considering your missing the two largest ingredients in the airflow (power) pipeline....Im referring to heads and cam of course, I think you should be very satisfied with your results.

The right small cam would wake this car up 45-50 RWHP with zero penalties in drivability.....get in touch with me if your thinking of going down that road.

Enjoy the new power....I bet the car feels great

-Tony

PS.....Get the overlay posted (baseline versus new curve) so folks can see the entire picture and post this in the dyno section. I bet you the general response is very positive and most would feel you got your money's worth. $50-$60 a pony is what you typically spend to improve the performance of your vehicle and the more power you make the more expensive it becomes. I would say your right in the hunt for my rule of them to be close. The cam is the biggest bang for the buck in an N/A combo but once thats out of the way expect to spend about what I said and more to improve performance.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:19 AM   #18
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Thanks for chiming in, Tony. And you're right...based on several dyno sheets I found and on our discussions, I expected 380. We pulled 385 out of it and settled for 381. I'm supposed to get the baseline/mod overlay today via email. I'll post it once it's here.

As far as the 385 rwhp/380 tq run the car made, the car knocked right up at the top. The run was nearly peaked, and it coughed a couple of times right at the end. So he decided to pull a couple of degrees back off. I was happy with that decision. My priority is definitely a safe tune.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:14 AM   #19
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considering it is difficult to find fast 92s around, and at times used ones sell for more than the new 102...was wondering if I went with a fast 102 and a 90tb just so I dont over do it will I lose power with a 102 vs a 92? I know the tbody will be the limiting factor for this N/A engine. However I know if I decide to ever go turbo I can change it to a 102 if needed. I have all the bolt-ons including a cam 227/233 at 113lsa. I know some people say 102 is overkill but will I lose power with it in my ls6?
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudesweet View Post
Thanks for chiming in, Tony. And you're right...based on several dyno sheets I found and on our discussions, I expected 380. We pulled 385 out of it and settled for 381. I'm supposed to get the baseline/mod overlay today via email. I'll post it once it's here.

As far as the 385 rwhp/380 tq run the car made, the car knocked right up at the top. The run was nearly peaked, and it coughed a couple of times right at the end. So he decided to pull a couple of degrees back off. I was happy with that decision. My priority is definitely a safe tune.
Hi Derrich,

You may have had some false knock....the headers and the intake swap will effect the knock sensors (headers are like a pipe organ....LOL). You can adjust the sensitivity of those but safe is good. Point is I look at this exercise like you picked up 50 HP from the manifold/header swap (and a bunch of torque), and If I recall your still running the 90 mm LS2 TB (a 102 TB is worth 3-5 more....5 on a hotter combo).

The reality here is a sizable portion of the gains cam from the intake swap....not the other way around. Headers are typically worth 15 - 20 HP at most (with stock heads and cam)....maybe 15 ft/lbs of torque or so. When you do the overlay I think your going to see close to a 40 ft/lb gain in torque at 4000 RPM's! (a very bonus point in the curve to feel a gain like that).

I did some quick digging for CTSV header swaps with dyno and came up with these two snippets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAYGO View Post
Ok, this is from CTSV_510s car (with MP112). Is the fainter line the torque? That's seems pretty flat, but is that because of the Maggie? Someone have a sheet w/o a blower?
Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsslow98 View Post
I gained 22 rwhp and 15rwtq with catted 1 7/8. If you think you can do noticeably better with 1 3/4 I'd like to see it lol. Headers were my favorite mod besides nitrous

In the first case the gains are with a blower which should really like a header swap and produced so-so results....the second example is a 1 7/8 header which always looks about 5 or so HP better in peak power but is usually down in torque in the lower/middle part of the power curve compared to the same header with a 1.75" primary tube.

I think when you see your overlay compared to the one above (and others) you will be glad you dropped dime on that intake and keep in mind that even with the large gains you saw from it, you haven't fully tapped into what it has to offer yet primarily due to your stock heads and cam, not to mention the proper fitting 102 TB (I'm not 100% but I think your running a ported LS2 90mm unit still with this set-up).

Realize that the better the heads the larger the gains going with a higher flowing more efficient manifold. As the heads get better, the stock manifold becomes more and more a restriction, thats why an application with a really good heads will see a larger gain swapping to the better intake but as your combination also proves, there is still alot to be had even with the stock heads and cam. As the mod bug keeps biting you some of your future gains from a cam or possibly a head swap will be from tapping into the flow this manifold has to offer that your current combo hasn't quite exploited yet.

I know you were on the fence about this and I essentially promised you results or should I say strongly encouraged you to continue down the path you had started. I hope as you read a bit more and do some digging around you will come to realize everything really did work out as best could be expected.

Alright guys....sorry for the novel!

So how does the car feel??....have you driven and played with it much?



Cheers,
Tony
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