Brake problems help!!
01-02-2013, 09:28 PM
#1
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Brake problems help!! ok so rebuilt my brakes and installed goodridge braided lines. we bleed all the brakes and made sure there is no air in the lines. Wheh the car is off the brake pedal is stiff. when the car is on the brake pedal is no longer stiff and goes to the floor almost. Whats wrong??
01-02-2013, 10:00 PM
#4
Me too. Did your reservoir go dry while you were bleeding?
Eagerly awaiting those tech2 bleed results Fuzzy. I could also get off my butt and have my friend with a tech2 help me with mine.
I guess it's also possible our master cylinder's seals are tired. That, barring air still in the lines, air in the abs system, or a leak somewhere, is the only possibility...
Eagerly awaiting those tech2 bleed results Fuzzy. I could also get off my butt and have my friend with a tech2 help me with mine.
I guess it's also possible our master cylinder's seals are tired. That, barring air still in the lines, air in the abs system, or a leak somewhere, is the only possibility...
01-02-2013, 10:26 PM
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Me too. Did your reservoir go dry while you were bleeding?
Eagerly awaiting those tech2 bleed results Fuzzy. I could also get off my butt and have my friend with a tech2 help me with mine.
I guess it's also possible our master cylinder's seals are tired. That, barring air still in the lines, air in the abs system, or a leak somewhere, is the only possibility...
Eagerly awaiting those tech2 bleed results Fuzzy. I could also get off my butt and have my friend with a tech2 help me with mine.
I guess it's also possible our master cylinder's seals are tired. That, barring air still in the lines, air in the abs system, or a leak somewhere, is the only possibility...
01-02-2013, 10:30 PM
#6
Me too. Did your reservoir go dry while you were bleeding?
Eagerly awaiting those tech2 bleed results Fuzzy. I could also get off my butt and have my friend with a tech2 help me with mine.
I guess it's also possible our master cylinder's seals are tired. That, barring air still in the lines, air in the abs system, or a leak somewhere, is the only possibility...
Eagerly awaiting those tech2 bleed results Fuzzy. I could also get off my butt and have my friend with a tech2 help me with mine.
I guess it's also possible our master cylinder's seals are tired. That, barring air still in the lines, air in the abs system, or a leak somewhere, is the only possibility...
01-02-2013, 10:35 PM
#7
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Nothing. The Tech 2 did nothing. I've got a new brake master cylinder sitting next to me, but until I install it and find out that it's been the problem all along, I'm going to to with "the guys at the Cadillac Dealership don't know how how to bleed brakes" explanation. There are no leaks in the system, period.
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01-02-2013, 10:58 PM
#9
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Yeah I'd check the reservoir first. When I bleed brakes after installing new parts, I gravity bleed for a while. Make sure your getting a steady drip from each bleeder, then follow proper bleeding procedure. Alot of manufactures want the wheels to be bled in a certain order due to the ABS unit. If your still having problems then its time to start diagnosing.
01-03-2013, 06:07 AM
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I must have because what else could be wrong...I still don't understand why they feel fine with the car off but messed up with it on... Why do the brakes differ when the car is off versus on
I'll check the reservoir today hopefully that's the problem any special way to bleed to make sure I fix this
I'll check the reservoir today hopefully that's the problem any special way to bleed to make sure I fix this
01-03-2013, 06:35 AM
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I just did the same install a few weeks ago with no problems. I was over paranoid keeping the reservoir full, so I imagine that is your problem. The GM tech I go to said if you introduce any air into the system it'll get into the ABS/EBCM. He suggested find a dirt/gravel road and hit the brake so the ABS engages and cycles a few times. Apparently hooking up the TechII does the same thing, then rebleed the brakes. I used the order on the FAQ: RR,LF,LR,RF/
01-03-2013, 07:05 AM
#12
None of that works (barring the possibility that GM grease monkeys don't know how to bleed brakes). Pedal still goes to the floor. Tried every trick in the book other than replacing the master cylinder.
01-03-2013, 09:09 AM
#13
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Weird...I can't see the master cyl being the problem if it was good before hand. I'm not keen on the Goodridge lines now anywho. I don't like how there are two fitting to tighten at the caliper(2 different failure points IMO). Hope the master cyl fixes it for you.
01-03-2013, 10:10 AM
#14
I must have because what else could be wrong...I still don't understand why they feel fine with the car off but messed up with it on... Why do the brakes differ when the car is off versus on
I'll check the reservoir today hopefully that's the problem any special way to bleed to make sure I fix this
I'll check the reservoir today hopefully that's the problem any special way to bleed to make sure I fix this
I just did the same install a few weeks ago with no problems. I was over paranoid keeping the reservoir full, so I imagine that is your problem. The GM tech I go to said if you introduce any air into the system it'll get into the ABS/EBCM. He suggested find a dirt/gravel road and hit the brake so the ABS engages and cycles a few times. Apparently hooking up the TechII does the same thing, then rebleed the brakes. I used the order on the FAQ: RR,LF,LR,RF/
If you let the brake res run dry then you have problems. IMO you need to remove the master and bench bleed it. Other wise it may never go back to normal, done it many times. Its done by holding the master in a vise with the res filled and tubes running from the fittings back into the res with the ends being submerged into the fluid. So that fluid will both be forced through the tubes, then on release suck back in fluid. Then just pump away until all the air bubbles are gone.
I have never heard of the abs BS that was posted above the bs is just a pump, once he brakes are bleed there is no more bleeding! So to go "activate" your abs then rebleed is going to do nothing but waste flid and your time.
01-03-2013, 10:27 AM
#15
The ABS issue is not BS. Go read about it before you say something stupid again.
I bench-bled my master as part of the troubleshooting process (before the Tech 2 visit) and it didn't fix the problem. So the air can't be in the master. It has to be in the calipers, the lines, or the ABS.
Incidentally, I have reason to believe the seals on my master may also be going. Under constant pressure, the brake pedal slowly collapses. Since there are no fluid leaks in the system (checked 5+ times), it's indicative of bad brake master cylinder seals.
Which is why there's a new master cylinder sitting on my desk.
I bench-bled my master as part of the troubleshooting process (before the Tech 2 visit) and it didn't fix the problem. So the air can't be in the master. It has to be in the calipers, the lines, or the ABS.
Incidentally, I have reason to believe the seals on my master may also be going. Under constant pressure, the brake pedal slowly collapses. Since there are no fluid leaks in the system (checked 5+ times), it's indicative of bad brake master cylinder seals.
Which is why there's a new master cylinder sitting on my desk.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 01-03-2013 at 10:35 AM.
01-03-2013, 10:33 AM
#16
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They differ because when the car is on there is a vacuum brake booster which assits in braking and increases pressure. If the pedal pumps up meaning one pump 2nd pump hard then drop to the floor there is air in the system some how plain and simple.
That brake bleeding order is almost correct. You wnat to bleed starting at the farthest away and then move closer to the master cylinder. So it should be RR, LR, RF, LF.
If you let the brake res run dry then you have problems. IMO you need to remove the master and bench bleed it. Other wise it may never go back to normal, done it many times. Its done by holding the master in a vise with the res filled and tubes running from the fittings back into the res with the ends being submerged into the fluid. So that fluid will both be forced through the tubes, then on release suck back in fluid. Then just pump away until all the air bubbles are gone.
I have never heard of the abs BS that was posted above the bs is just a pump, once he brakes are bleed there is no more bleeding! So to go "activate" your abs then rebleed is going to do nothing but waste flid and your time.
That brake bleeding order is almost correct. You wnat to bleed starting at the farthest away and then move closer to the master cylinder. So it should be RR, LR, RF, LF.
If you let the brake res run dry then you have problems. IMO you need to remove the master and bench bleed it. Other wise it may never go back to normal, done it many times. Its done by holding the master in a vise with the res filled and tubes running from the fittings back into the res with the ends being submerged into the fluid. So that fluid will both be forced through the tubes, then on release suck back in fluid. Then just pump away until all the air bubbles are gone.
I have never heard of the abs BS that was posted above the bs is just a pump, once he brakes are bleed there is no more bleeding! So to go "activate" your abs then rebleed is going to do nothing but waste flid and your time.
01-03-2013, 10:54 AM
#17
As stated above, if you let the master go dry, or let all the fluid leak out when changing the lines, you could have air trapped in the ABS unit. Or as mentioned above air trapped in the master.
You will need a mechanic with a tech II to cycle the ABS unit. Bench bleed the master(as suggested above).
I had not heard of the dirt road method before, but it makes some sense.
The other thing I didn't see mentioned here is to make sure both sides of each caliper are properly bled.
Ron
You will need a mechanic with a tech II to cycle the ABS unit. Bench bleed the master(as suggested above).
I had not heard of the dirt road method before, but it makes some sense.
The other thing I didn't see mentioned here is to make sure both sides of each caliper are properly bled.
Ron
01-03-2013, 01:45 PM
#19
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The ABS module is a heckuva lot more than "just a pump." It is definitely possible to get air trapped in the ABS, and there is definitely a procedure to cycle the system using the Tech2 in an attempt to free air that has been trapped in there. Getting the ABS to activate on the street is free and obviously doesn't require a Tech2.
01-03-2013, 01:51 PM
#20
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That technique is not correct on many modern cars (including ours), which have cross-connected brake systems. The RR and LF are connected, as are the LR and RF. That's why the FSM has you bleed in the RR, LF, LR, RF order.
The ABS module is a heckuva lot more than "just a pump." It is definitely possible to get air trapped in the ABS, and there is definitely a procedure to cycle the system using the Tech2 in an attempt to free air that has been trapped in there. Getting the ABS to activate on the street is free and obviously doesn't require a Tech2.
The ABS module is a heckuva lot more than "just a pump." It is definitely possible to get air trapped in the ABS, and there is definitely a procedure to cycle the system using the Tech2 in an attempt to free air that has been trapped in there. Getting the ABS to activate on the street is free and obviously doesn't require a Tech2.