LS7 clutch install gone wrong, need help.
06-27-2013, 03:27 AM
#1
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LS7 clutch install gone wrong, need help. I buttoned up the V today with a new Luk LS7 clutch, F1 flywheel and LS7 slave, along with a new pilot bearing; aside from having to fight it a bit to get it mated up to the transmission, mostly due to using regular muscles to align it, it went pretty smoothly, although I did have to sinch it up with a couple bolts once I got the input shaft in there.
When I went to start it after getting it finished, I had a strange whirring noise that was not familiar; the car also felt like it was bogging? I couldn't get it into any gears, felt like it was totally locked out. With the car off I can get it into any gears just fine.
I bled the clutch with some new super blue fluid, the pedal is firmer than I've ever had it, and I pushed all the old fluid out entirely.
My thoughts are that maybe ...
1) the pressure plate is horked somehow. I torqued it in 3 stages: 20ft-lbs, 30ft-lbs, 52ft-lbs, in a star pattern.
2) Something isn't aligned. That seems odd, though, considering I got it to mount up fairly smoothly once I got a couple bolts run into the bellhousing from the trans. Logic would dictate that the trans wouldn't butt up to the bellhousing if things weren't where they should be.
3) Maybe it's the clutch not disengaging/engaging all the way?
Is it possible to install a clutch backward?
Kinda out of ideas honestly. Two long nights trying to get this thing on the road and I'm a bit frustrated, especially since this is the 5th or 6th clutch I've done on a garage floor ...
Any help would be really appreciated.
When I went to start it after getting it finished, I had a strange whirring noise that was not familiar; the car also felt like it was bogging? I couldn't get it into any gears, felt like it was totally locked out. With the car off I can get it into any gears just fine.
I bled the clutch with some new super blue fluid, the pedal is firmer than I've ever had it, and I pushed all the old fluid out entirely.
My thoughts are that maybe ...
1) the pressure plate is horked somehow. I torqued it in 3 stages: 20ft-lbs, 30ft-lbs, 52ft-lbs, in a star pattern.
2) Something isn't aligned. That seems odd, though, considering I got it to mount up fairly smoothly once I got a couple bolts run into the bellhousing from the trans. Logic would dictate that the trans wouldn't butt up to the bellhousing if things weren't where they should be.
3) Maybe it's the clutch not disengaging/engaging all the way?
Is it possible to install a clutch backward?
Kinda out of ideas honestly. Two long nights trying to get this thing on the road and I'm a bit frustrated, especially since this is the 5th or 6th clutch I've done on a garage floor ... Any help would be really appreciated.
06-27-2013, 06:45 AM
#2
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I do believe that my clutch had a side labeled as the side to face the flywheel. I would infer that it is possible to install it backwards.
Last edited by DougNuts; 06-27-2013 at 10:59 AM.
06-27-2013, 10:05 AM
#3
the disc does have it stamped flywheel side.. id check that first. also make sure that pilot bearing is in all the way and not cocked.
one trick i learned to get the tranny to line up with out having to use bolts to pull the trans to the bell is one the input shaft is in..take a floor jack and jack up on the tail end of the trans..once u get it say half way up just push the trans towards the motor and itll pop right in
one trick i learned to get the tranny to line up with out having to use bolts to pull the trans to the bell is one the input shaft is in..take a floor jack and jack up on the tail end of the trans..once u get it say half way up just push the trans towards the motor and itll pop right in
06-27-2013, 01:03 PM
#4
I don't think you can bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel with the disc backwards. Did you plug in the connector on the line? I guess you did if you bled it after it was installed but it couldn't hurt to undo and reconnect it. It's possible you got a bad slave.
06-27-2013, 01:43 PM
#5
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I did install the new slave with the new clip and such. I might fiddle with that first ... anything to spare me the horror of dropping the damned transmission again. Thanks for the suggestion. I might just go buy a Mityvac and try to bleed it that way.
06-27-2013, 02:42 PM
#7
I agree with Brian. Don't bother with a MityVac--get yourself a Motive Power bleeder and submerge the end of the remote into a container located so that you can watch it from the driver's seat. Start bleeding with 10 psi and smooth, slow strokes to prevent aeration of the bubbles in the system. Sometimes it also helps to hook your foot under the pedal and draw it back toward you to more rapidly draw fluid into the master cylinder.
The other trick is to raise the front end of the car off the ground as far as you can while bleeding. This will make it more likely that dislodged bubbles will make it out of the system.
The other trick is to raise the front end of the car off the ground as far as you can while bleeding. This will make it more likely that dislodged bubbles will make it out of the system.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 06-27-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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06-27-2013, 03:04 PM
#8
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I agree with Brian. Don't bother with a MityVac--get yourself a Motive Power bleeder and submerge the end of the remote into a container located so that you can watch it from the driver's seat. Start bleeding with 10 psi and smooth, slow strokes to prevent aeration of the bubbles in the system. Sometimes it also helps to hook your foot under the pedal and draw it back toward you to more rapidly draw fluid into the master cylinder.
The other trick is to raise the front end of the car off the ground as far as you can while bleeding. This will make it more likely that dislodged bubbles will make it out of the system.
The other trick is to raise the front end of the car off the ground as far as you can while bleeding. This will make it more likely that dislodged bubbles will make it out of the system.
The more I read, the less I think I installed something wrong internally. I'll bleed it some more and see what's up.
06-27-2013, 03:09 PM
#9
Sorry for your problems, that sucks.
Info:http://www.theturboforums.com/thread...e-Torque-Specs
1st:Engine Flywheel Bolts (Final Pass) 74 lb ft.
2nd: Aluminum flywheel? if it was a snug fit, you should have heated it in the oven before you mounted it, it could be warped (I had to heat mine before assembly and it slipped right on).
http://www.fidanza.com/Files/AluminumFWLogo_4-13F.pdf
I use a remote bleeder, just open it up and stick the end in the reservoir and just keep pumping till no bubbles.
Duck soup.
Info:http://www.theturboforums.com/thread...e-Torque-Specs
1st:Engine Flywheel Bolts (Final Pass) 74 lb ft.
2nd: Aluminum flywheel? if it was a snug fit, you should have heated it in the oven before you mounted it, it could be warped (I had to heat mine before assembly and it slipped right on).
http://www.fidanza.com/Files/AluminumFWLogo_4-13F.pdf
I use a remote bleeder, just open it up and stick the end in the reservoir and just keep pumping till no bubbles.
Duck soup.
06-27-2013, 03:26 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
No one around here has a Motive. I can get my hands on a Mityvac today, though. Would I be doing myself a disservice by trying to use it? I can Amazon 1-day ship a Motive, if it'll be that big of a difference ...
06-27-2013, 04:59 PM
#11
Do you have a speed bleeder? or a remote bleeder? Then do you have someone to help you bleed the clutch? Just having a friend and bleeding it the traditional way is how I have alwasy done it with great success. Friend slowly pushes down clutch pedal while I open it, and close it before he reaches the floor. Closed bleeder he pulls the clutch pedal up. Once the pedal starts returning on its own I bleed it a few more times and call it good. Have a water bottle cut in half to catch the fluid and you're good to go! I also have only ever used a remote bleeder. that mighty vac kit will give you some hoses so that you can atleast route the fluid into the bottle more easily/cleanly. Good luck and let us know how it works out or what you figured out!
06-27-2013, 09:55 PM
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Gonna ask just to clarify, what did you torque the pressure plate to and in what order did you them? I only ask because I didn't torque mine down evenly and it exhibited similar signs. I hoped that wasnt want it was, so i bled and bled and bled some more. Didn't help at all. I pulled the trans and the pressure plate fingers were uneven (weren't disengaging fully) because of the uneven torque. Also, I think the best bleeding procedures are on cadillacfaq. Just my opinion.
Last edited by GA95DCMSS; 06-28-2013 at 04:03 PM.
06-27-2013, 10:57 PM
#13
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Well, I learned a few things.
1) the Mityvac sucks at sucking.
2) hydraulic clutches are a bitch.
3) brake fluid burns if you get it in your mouth.
I'm going to pull apart the trans tomorrow morning and re-torque everything...
I torqued the pressure plate to 52ft-lbs in 3 cycles, starting at like 15ft-lbs or something, then going to 30-something, finally to the 52ft-lbs. I did it in a criss-cross pattern like you would a wheel.
Your issue sounds a lot like mine. Fingers crossed.
1) the Mityvac sucks at sucking.
2) hydraulic clutches are a bitch.
3) brake fluid burns if you get it in your mouth.
I'm going to pull apart the trans tomorrow morning and re-torque everything...
Gonna ask just to clarify, what did you torque the pressure plate to and in what order did you them? I only ask because I didn't torque mine down evenly and it exhibited similar signs. I hoped that wasnt want it was, so i bled and bled and bled some more. Didn't help at all. I pulled the trans and the pressure plate fingers were uneven (weren't disengaging fully) because of the uneven torque. Also, I think the best bleeding procedures are on Deforestation. Just my opinion.
Your issue sounds a lot like mine. Fingers crossed.
06-28-2013, 04:43 PM
#17
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I got it torn down again. The transmission jack made it about 55 times easier.
I could definitely see that the forks on the pressure plate were being unevenly pushed; only 5 of the 10+ forks actually had any marks on them. So, I am going to presume that the pressure plate was incorrectly torqued.
Unfortunately I had a bright [read: not bright] idea to verify the slave cylinder was working by connecting it, then pressing the clutch pedal. Boosh, fluid out the top. Chances are it's dead, now. Hooray. (Any chance it's alive?)
I could definitely see that the forks on the pressure plate were being unevenly pushed; only 5 of the 10+ forks actually had any marks on them. So, I am going to presume that the pressure plate was incorrectly torqued.
Unfortunately I had a bright [read: not bright] idea to verify the slave cylinder was working by connecting it, then pressing the clutch pedal. Boosh, fluid out the top. Chances are it's dead, now. Hooray. (Any chance it's alive?)
06-28-2013, 04:50 PM
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