brake issue, looking for pointers on where to start
01-12-2014, 03:50 PM
#21
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well it seems like the only product other than stock is what fuzzy recomended? i am not going back to stock as they are a known issue. anyone have an opinion on replacing just the front vs all four corners?
and 54 do you have a link to anyone who blew a master after doing ss lines?
and 54 do you have a link to anyone who blew a master after doing ss lines?
01-12-2014, 08:56 PM
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i saw them and am going to have to do some research on them vs the RB. both are close in price so it really comes down to which is the better product.
01-13-2014, 08:13 PM
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RB lines ordered should be here in 2 days and on by the weekend.
i'll try and snap some picks along the way. i have heard mixed results with vacuum bleeders on here. i will have a second person helping so hopefully we can bleed it well, go out and engage the ABS then bleed it again. feel free to chime in with you bleeding woes or success stories. not my first rodeo but i am worried the fluid got too low and got air in the system. it got low enough to have the low fluid warning pop on.
i'll try and snap some picks along the way. i have heard mixed results with vacuum bleeders on here. i will have a second person helping so hopefully we can bleed it well, go out and engage the ABS then bleed it again. feel free to chime in with you bleeding woes or success stories. not my first rodeo but i am worried the fluid got too low and got air in the system. it got low enough to have the low fluid warning pop on.
01-14-2014, 08:51 AM
#26
RB lines ordered should be here in 2 days and on by the weekend.
i'll try and snap some picks along the way. i have heard mixed results with vacuum bleeders on here. i will have a second person helping so hopefully we can bleed it well, go out and engage the ABS then bleed it again. feel free to chime in with you bleeding woes or success stories. not my first rodeo but i am worried the fluid got too low and got air in the system. it got low enough to have the low fluid warning pop on.
i'll try and snap some picks along the way. i have heard mixed results with vacuum bleeders on here. i will have a second person helping so hopefully we can bleed it well, go out and engage the ABS then bleed it again. feel free to chime in with you bleeding woes or success stories. not my first rodeo but i am worried the fluid got too low and got air in the system. it got low enough to have the low fluid warning pop on.
01-14-2014, 01:19 PM
#28
01-16-2014, 08:55 PM
#29
I got the motive bleeder with the aluminum threaded attachments for the clutch and brake res.
New crush washers will be used. Master is new.
Edited out this part of the post until I can confirm correct, I don't want anyone screwing up their abs because of something I heard but have not tested.
Last edited by Cadzilla; 01-19-2014 at 08:41 PM.
01-16-2014, 09:12 PM
#30
That's very interesting. I know for a fact (because I watched them) that the guys at the dealership did not open the bleeders on the ABS unit. I wasn't aware that there were any, but if there are, I may try to add bleeder lines to them if they have threads.
Also, what aluminum attachments are you talking about? I've got plastic ones.
Also, what aluminum attachments are you talking about? I've got plastic ones.
01-16-2014, 10:17 PM
#32
Stupid website. Nice 5 minute post timeout
I'll make it quick
Fuzz yes the black label line, deep aluminum caps with threads. The hoses connect with brass threads and the caps swivel on the hose. Night and day better than the cheap plastic caps and that dreadful chain contraption. I'll find the receipt with the part numbers. got them at summit
the clutch is threaded and deep. The brake cap is like the plastic version with the 3 prongs, but it's very stiff aluminum and won't flex. I have not used it yet so can't yet say if fluid will get past under high psi..I had to use clamps on the plastic one to prevent leaking.
I'll make it quick
Fuzz yes the black label line, deep aluminum caps with threads. The hoses connect with brass threads and the caps swivel on the hose. Night and day better than the cheap plastic caps and that dreadful chain contraption. I'll find the receipt with the part numbers. got them at summit
the clutch is threaded and deep. The brake cap is like the plastic version with the 3 prongs, but it's very stiff aluminum and won't flex. I have not used it yet so can't yet say if fluid will get past under high psi..I had to use clamps on the plastic one to prevent leaking.
Last edited by Cadzilla; 01-19-2014 at 08:44 PM.
01-22-2014, 07:49 PM
#33
Update: FTC.
Fuzzy, the guy was referring to a Kelsey Hayes abs unit that can be bled at the block. Our Delphi unit cannot be done this way..
Got my tech2 Tuesday, took off work today to get medieval on these fn brakes.
The alum brake cap withstood 30 psi without leaking btw, so thumbs up there.
I bled with std dot 4 fluid, then did an automated bleed, then bled again. No change in pedal feel. Soft til about half way down..
I didn't notice any large bubbles during the auto bleed, but it definitely purged a lot of junk fluid that was trapped in the abs block. The scanner buzzes each solenoid for a few long bursts, while the power bleeder pushes fluid through. If no power bleeder you could also pump the pedal manually with a hose from the caliper submerged in fluid.
I then switched to ATE super blue and did 2 more of the above rounds for a total of 6 standard bleed cycles and 3 automated bleed cycles. No bubbles... some microscopic but nothing notable.
Then I just bled the hell out of it for good measure. Still didn't help.
I put 3 cans of blue and 2 big bottles of cheap stuff through the system today.
The automated bleed process was RR LR LF RF, whereas the service manual order for regular bleed is RR LF LR RF..
Still a soft pedal. Very marginal improvement in modulation. I'm not sure what to say. For $1500 I expected to come out of this process with a firm pedal.
My master is new, bench bled etc, everything else checks out. Nothing is leaking.
There's only one thing it could be, these stupid goodridge lines. They are the only thing that isn't stock. When I had stock lines it stopped on a dime with a firm pedal...I'll go back to them and see if that fixes the problem. I see no other alternative. I think they fixed the recall issue right? New lines should be ok.. My car won't see salt so I think the corrosion issue might be a moot concern.
So where could air be hiding at this point? What else could be wrong?..booster is fine. Master was bench bled..
One thing I found interesting is how bubbles can withstand the pressure from the bleeder and just sit in the hose while the fluid rushes by. Makes me think they could easily hide in the lines...perhaps more bleeding is necessary. Don't know. I want to burn this car.
I know some are running these goodridge lines with no issues but with the inconsistency in their qc I'm not sure we are all using the exact same product.
I was reading where some guys did not like banjo fittings for various reasons.. maybe there's something to that..
Fuzzy, the guy was referring to a Kelsey Hayes abs unit that can be bled at the block. Our Delphi unit cannot be done this way..
Got my tech2 Tuesday, took off work today to get medieval on these fn brakes.
The alum brake cap withstood 30 psi without leaking btw, so thumbs up there.
I bled with std dot 4 fluid, then did an automated bleed, then bled again. No change in pedal feel. Soft til about half way down..
I didn't notice any large bubbles during the auto bleed, but it definitely purged a lot of junk fluid that was trapped in the abs block. The scanner buzzes each solenoid for a few long bursts, while the power bleeder pushes fluid through. If no power bleeder you could also pump the pedal manually with a hose from the caliper submerged in fluid.
I then switched to ATE super blue and did 2 more of the above rounds for a total of 6 standard bleed cycles and 3 automated bleed cycles. No bubbles... some microscopic but nothing notable.
Then I just bled the hell out of it for good measure. Still didn't help.
I put 3 cans of blue and 2 big bottles of cheap stuff through the system today.
The automated bleed process was RR LR LF RF, whereas the service manual order for regular bleed is RR LF LR RF..
Still a soft pedal. Very marginal improvement in modulation. I'm not sure what to say. For $1500 I expected to come out of this process with a firm pedal.
My master is new, bench bled etc, everything else checks out. Nothing is leaking.
There's only one thing it could be, these stupid goodridge lines. They are the only thing that isn't stock. When I had stock lines it stopped on a dime with a firm pedal...I'll go back to them and see if that fixes the problem. I see no other alternative. I think they fixed the recall issue right? New lines should be ok.. My car won't see salt so I think the corrosion issue might be a moot concern.
So where could air be hiding at this point? What else could be wrong?..booster is fine. Master was bench bled..
One thing I found interesting is how bubbles can withstand the pressure from the bleeder and just sit in the hose while the fluid rushes by. Makes me think they could easily hide in the lines...perhaps more bleeding is necessary. Don't know. I want to burn this car.
I know some are running these goodridge lines with no issues but with the inconsistency in their qc I'm not sure we are all using the exact same product.
I was reading where some guys did not like banjo fittings for various reasons.. maybe there's something to that..
01-22-2014, 08:27 PM
#34
If the system is full of fresh, clean fluid, I run silicone aquarium tubing from the caliper back to the master to recycle the fluid during marathon bleeding sessions. A 15' piece reached all four calipers and saved a lot of $ in motul.
My other weak pedal troubleshooting tip is a dead blow hammer. Seriously. I give the caliper I'm bleeding several love taps in case air is trapped in a stubborn spot inside the caliper.
And one last CYA, you're bleeding from both bleeders on each caliper, right? I don't doubt your skills, just didn't see it mentioned specifically.
My other weak pedal troubleshooting tip is a dead blow hammer. Seriously. I give the caliper I'm bleeding several love taps in case air is trapped in a stubborn spot inside the caliper.
And one last CYA, you're bleeding from both bleeders on each caliper, right? I don't doubt your skills, just didn't see it mentioned specifically.
01-22-2014, 09:29 PM
#35
Yeah I always do inner then outer on the bleeders.. for the automated bleed you only do the inner.
I've wanted to try that motul for a long time but can't justify it until I resolve these issues.. good idea to recycle like that especially considering the cost.
I used to hit the calipers with my rubber mallet but couldn't find it this time. I can't imagine smacking it hard with a dead blow. I've tried it softly and it dents and chunks them, takes off paint..maybe I'm not doing it right.
I can't see them harboring enough air at this point to be responsible for this soft of a pedal, but there has to be air in there somewhere...
I also thought about removing the calipers to turn them upside down and hit them, shake the lines etc. I guess I could raise each corner higher when bleeding as well, every addl degree of incline helps move those bubbles.
Im wondering if the conventional method of pushing the pedal shoves fluid through faster than 30 psi.. I'm not a fan of the speed bleeder screws but maybe I'll buy some to try out a manual bleed.
I've wanted to try that motul for a long time but can't justify it until I resolve these issues.. good idea to recycle like that especially considering the cost.
I used to hit the calipers with my rubber mallet but couldn't find it this time. I can't imagine smacking it hard with a dead blow. I've tried it softly and it dents and chunks them, takes off paint..maybe I'm not doing it right.
I can't see them harboring enough air at this point to be responsible for this soft of a pedal, but there has to be air in there somewhere...
I also thought about removing the calipers to turn them upside down and hit them, shake the lines etc. I guess I could raise each corner higher when bleeding as well, every addl degree of incline helps move those bubbles.
Im wondering if the conventional method of pushing the pedal shoves fluid through faster than 30 psi.. I'm not a fan of the speed bleeder screws but maybe I'll buy some to try out a manual bleed.
01-22-2014, 10:21 PM
#36
Fuzzy, the guy was referring to a Kelsey Hayes abs unit that can be bled at the block. Our Delphi unit cannot be done this way..
Got my tech2 Tuesday, took off work today to get medieval on these fn brakes.
I didn't notice any large bubbles during the auto bleed, but it definitely purged a lot of junk fluid that was trapped in the abs block. The scanner buzzes each solenoid for a few long bursts, while the power bleeder pushes fluid through. If no power bleeder you could also pump the pedal manually with a hose from the caliper submerged in fluid.
The automated bleed process was RR LR LF RF, whereas the service manual order for regular bleed is RR LF LR RF..
Still a soft pedal. Very marginal improvement in modulation. I'm not sure what to say. For $1500 I expected to come out of this process with a firm pedal.
My master is new, bench bled etc, everything else checks out. Nothing is leaking.
There's only one thing it could be, these stupid goodridge lines. They are the only thing that isn't stock. When I had stock lines it stopped on a dime with a firm pedal...I'll go back to them and see if that fixes the problem.
Got my tech2 Tuesday, took off work today to get medieval on these fn brakes.
I didn't notice any large bubbles during the auto bleed, but it definitely purged a lot of junk fluid that was trapped in the abs block. The scanner buzzes each solenoid for a few long bursts, while the power bleeder pushes fluid through. If no power bleeder you could also pump the pedal manually with a hose from the caliper submerged in fluid.
The automated bleed process was RR LR LF RF, whereas the service manual order for regular bleed is RR LF LR RF..
Still a soft pedal. Very marginal improvement in modulation. I'm not sure what to say. For $1500 I expected to come out of this process with a firm pedal.
My master is new, bench bled etc, everything else checks out. Nothing is leaking.
There's only one thing it could be, these stupid goodridge lines. They are the only thing that isn't stock. When I had stock lines it stopped on a dime with a firm pedal...I'll go back to them and see if that fixes the problem.
Originally Posted by Fuzzylogic (CF thread)
The problem started when I installed the Goodrich lines. I accidentally let the reservoir run dry, which was my bad, but after bench bleeding the original master twice, taking the car in to a GM dealership to cycle the ABS solenoids, buying a new master, an on-the-car bench bleeder kit, a Motive Power Bleeder, valved speed bleeders for all four corners, and still having 25% pedal, I'm not sure what else to point at. It's either me or the lines.
- RacingBrake BL920 stainless steel lines
- RacingBrake 2114-311 355mm two-piece front rotors
- RacingBrake 2115-381 365mm two-piece rear rotors
- RacingBrake PD1405-38 ET800 CTS-V2 front pads
- RacingBrake PD592-38 ET800 CTS-V1/V2 rear pads
- SKF BR930539 X-Tracker hubs with ARP 100-7708 lugs
- Hardbrake TS-T-D1382 and TS-TD0592 Ti6Al4V 1.0mm brake heat shields
- CTS-V2 front/rear calipers with Russell 639560 speed bleeders
- Combined V1 and V2 brake shields (3 pieces total) with 3" spindle ducts
- STS-V aluminum front spindles (-4.5 lbs) with modified UCAs
- Permatex 09128 Copper anti-seize on all spindle interfaces
01-23-2014, 12:07 AM
#37
That's the old school bleed order but nowhere is it recommended in any manuals. I've always used the x pattern suggested by the factory..
I didn't see that post on cf, never spend time over there since getting banned for teasing the Cadillac customer service troll skanks a while back.
I guess I could try that order, I just didn't think to do so this time.
Stock feel would be far superior to the spongy pedal I have now...brick hard is better, but to suggest the stock setup is mushy would be incorrect.
I wanted the tech 2 for many other reasons. It's already solved a couple of other serious issues I had. I was just hoping the abs bleed would yield better results. It's diagnostic capability is amazing and bi directional functions are nice.
Only one Cadillac dealer near my house and they are absolutely terrible for service. One or two good techs, the rest will do more harm than good.
This isn't difficult. I've bled brakes on a dozen cars successfully, most with abs. Something is just not right.
I didn't see that post on cf, never spend time over there since getting banned for teasing the Cadillac customer service troll skanks a while back.
I guess I could try that order, I just didn't think to do so this time.
Stock feel would be far superior to the spongy pedal I have now...brick hard is better, but to suggest the stock setup is mushy would be incorrect.
I wanted the tech 2 for many other reasons. It's already solved a couple of other serious issues I had. I was just hoping the abs bleed would yield better results. It's diagnostic capability is amazing and bi directional functions are nice.
Only one Cadillac dealer near my house and they are absolutely terrible for service. One or two good techs, the rest will do more harm than good.
This isn't difficult. I've bled brakes on a dozen cars successfully, most with abs. Something is just not right.
Last edited by Cadzilla; 01-23-2014 at 12:13 AM.
01-23-2014, 08:26 AM
#38
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wow thats a helluva brake over haul. when the damn snow goes away here in MD i will be putting the RB lines on and bleeding the ever loving **** out of it and report back. kudos to you fuzzy for hooking up your car with some seeeeeeeerious stopping powa.
02-12-2014, 12:43 AM
#39
Fuzzy, I agree that stock is not the best option, I'm just trying to start from the beginning before I changed anything, and go from there. The cost of the lines is just a necessity to troubleshoot imo..I'm still open to getting more ss lines in the future if I find my problem.
I only got the fronts in so far, so I will put them on this weekend and see if one of the front ss lines was the problem.
But, I'm beginning to think I might have a clogged line or even a pinched line somewhere. I have a somewhat firm pedal (albeit low) so it doesn't make sense that there's just air hanging around somewhere. It might be air, but if so maybe it's trapped.
Seems I'm hearing just one wheel squealing daily, only under moderate to hard breaking...Unfortunately I can't pinpoint which one.. All brake pads have plenty of life so it's not an indicator hitting the rotor, just the standard brembo squeal..I'm wondering if that's my culprit wheel..
I have an infrared thermometer but I can't get any notable variation in temps side to side. It's so cold that without the ability to stand on it due to the softness, it's hard to generate heat..
People mention a clogged body line or even a new brake line not drilled all the way through. Both possibilities I guess and good suggestions. Only a thorough removal and inspection will confirm yes or no. I recall checking but who knows..
Maybe I blocked a stock body fitting when I was stopping the flow during installation of the gr and didn't notice..
I remembered that I replaced my right rear caliper a while back, but don't know if it was pre ss lines or not. Regardless, I'm wondering ior if it's a bad caliper..clogged or seized or something.. or full of air somehow.
I was driving a new Tahoe last weekend and couldn't help but notice how well it stopped the harder you pressed the pedal. A @$&!# Tahoe! Relatively speaking, those brakes are nothing compared to the V.. I am missing out on half the fun of owning this car..
I only got the fronts in so far, so I will put them on this weekend and see if one of the front ss lines was the problem.
But, I'm beginning to think I might have a clogged line or even a pinched line somewhere. I have a somewhat firm pedal (albeit low) so it doesn't make sense that there's just air hanging around somewhere. It might be air, but if so maybe it's trapped.
Seems I'm hearing just one wheel squealing daily, only under moderate to hard breaking...Unfortunately I can't pinpoint which one.. All brake pads have plenty of life so it's not an indicator hitting the rotor, just the standard brembo squeal..I'm wondering if that's my culprit wheel..
I have an infrared thermometer but I can't get any notable variation in temps side to side. It's so cold that without the ability to stand on it due to the softness, it's hard to generate heat..
People mention a clogged body line or even a new brake line not drilled all the way through. Both possibilities I guess and good suggestions. Only a thorough removal and inspection will confirm yes or no. I recall checking but who knows..
Maybe I blocked a stock body fitting when I was stopping the flow during installation of the gr and didn't notice..
I remembered that I replaced my right rear caliper a while back, but don't know if it was pre ss lines or not. Regardless, I'm wondering ior if it's a bad caliper..clogged or seized or something.. or full of air somehow.
I was driving a new Tahoe last weekend and couldn't help but notice how well it stopped the harder you pressed the pedal. A @$&!# Tahoe! Relatively speaking, those brakes are nothing compared to the V.. I am missing out on half the fun of owning this car..
02-12-2014, 02:09 PM
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[QUOTE=Cadzilla;17968554]
I wanted the tech 2 for many other reasons. It's already solved a couple of other serious issues I had. I was just hoping the abs bleed would yield better results. It's diagnostic capability is amazing and bi directional functions are nice.
Only one Cadillac dealer near my house and they are absolutely terrible for service. One or two good techs, the rest will do more harm than good.[Quote]
I agree. I don't know how many times I've wished that I had my own Tech II or at least had access to one away from the dealership. It doesn't take long to run up a $1500 tab at the dealer. Wouldn't mind as much if they seemed half way competent but more often than not I come away disappointed.
I wanted the tech 2 for many other reasons. It's already solved a couple of other serious issues I had. I was just hoping the abs bleed would yield better results. It's diagnostic capability is amazing and bi directional functions are nice.
Only one Cadillac dealer near my house and they are absolutely terrible for service. One or two good techs, the rest will do more harm than good.[Quote]
I agree. I don't know how many times I've wished that I had my own Tech II or at least had access to one away from the dealership. It doesn't take long to run up a $1500 tab at the dealer. Wouldn't mind as much if they seemed half way competent but more often than not I come away disappointed.