Creative Steel: CTS-V 5 Lug Swap
04-08-2014, 04:11 PM
#61
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I guess I can see your point as well. There just seems to be a lot of money and parts tied up in this especially if you have a hard time sourcing parts in the future. There will always be the option of taking it to a machine shop, but again, more money out of pocket to figure out something that a person would think is an off the shelf part.
The thing with the custom axles, the wear items are off the shelf. The CV's aren't V specific. Now if you break the axle shaft that's different but unlikely.
The thing with the custom axles, the wear items are off the shelf. The CV's aren't V specific. Now if you break the axle shaft that's different but unlikely.
04-08-2014, 04:15 PM
#62
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Lots of good conversation going on here.
I/we are not going to leave anyone hanging out to dry when it comes to replacement hubs if and when someone needs them down the road. I'm about as boring/stable as anyone you will ever meet...I'm not going anywhere. As long as telephones and the internet are around I will be reach-able. If for some reason I stop doing these kits I will list the part numbers and dimensions required to have any machine shop duplicate these hubs.
We looked at the parts involved in this project. We determined that ALL the parts involved are "wear" parts. We chose to modify the hubs because they are "less" of a wear item than the rotors and they are easier/cheaper to ship. More importantly than that, we are unaware of hubs that bolt to the CTS-V that come factory with a 5 on 120mm bolt pattern.
I/we are not going to leave anyone hanging out to dry when it comes to replacement hubs if and when someone needs them down the road. I'm about as boring/stable as anyone you will ever meet...I'm not going anywhere. As long as telephones and the internet are around I will be reach-able. If for some reason I stop doing these kits I will list the part numbers and dimensions required to have any machine shop duplicate these hubs.
We looked at the parts involved in this project. We determined that ALL the parts involved are "wear" parts. We chose to modify the hubs because they are "less" of a wear item than the rotors and they are easier/cheaper to ship. More importantly than that, we are unaware of hubs that bolt to the CTS-V that come factory with a 5 on 120mm bolt pattern.
04-08-2014, 04:35 PM
#63
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Lots of good conversation going on here.
I/we are not going to leave anyone hanging out to dry when it comes to replacement hubs if and when someone needs them down the road. I'm about as boring/stable as anyone you will ever meet...I'm not going anywhere. As long as telephones and the internet are around I will be reach-able. If for some reason I stop doing these kits I will list the part numbers and dimensions required to have any machine shop duplicate these hubs.
We looked at the parts involved in this project. We determined that ALL the parts involved are "wear" parts. We chose to modify the hubs because they are "less" of a wear item than the rotors and they are easier/cheaper to ship. More importantly than that, we are unaware of hubs that bolt to the CTS-V that come factory with a 5 on 120mm bolt pattern.
I/we are not going to leave anyone hanging out to dry when it comes to replacement hubs if and when someone needs them down the road. I'm about as boring/stable as anyone you will ever meet...I'm not going anywhere. As long as telephones and the internet are around I will be reach-able. If for some reason I stop doing these kits I will list the part numbers and dimensions required to have any machine shop duplicate these hubs.
We looked at the parts involved in this project. We determined that ALL the parts involved are "wear" parts. We chose to modify the hubs because they are "less" of a wear item than the rotors and they are easier/cheaper to ship. More importantly than that, we are unaware of hubs that bolt to the CTS-V that come factory with a 5 on 120mm bolt pattern.
04-08-2014, 05:42 PM
#65
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Which all can be solved when swapping out axles, like saaaay when you get an 8.8 rear end. Take half the car apart, might as well do it up right with the front half
For example, say when you order something from GForce for a GTO, I would imagine if you could just get their CVs for the rear, you would be ok or maybe you'd have to get the whole axle. But either way, it can be done. They are 5 lug and I think 5x120 as well. And as I recall their frames are even somewhat similar to ours in width? Could be wrong there... But that's the route I was hoping for before this thread started
For example, say when you order something from GForce for a GTO, I would imagine if you could just get their CVs for the rear, you would be ok or maybe you'd have to get the whole axle. But either way, it can be done. They are 5 lug and I think 5x120 as well. And as I recall their frames are even somewhat similar to ours in width? Could be wrong there... But that's the route I was hoping for before this thread started
Last edited by ryridesmotox; 04-08-2014 at 05:52 PM.
04-08-2014, 10:46 PM
#66
It's pricey when you see $1k price tag but you have to take into consideration a couple things. I've had 2/4 wheel bearing failures within 2 years of each other - 8yr and 9yr OEM life. It's a matter of time before the other 2 decide to bite it!
If it's that time for brakes/rotors then good timing - no money lost going with rotors that fit this application. I would say to others that if you are still using OEM hubs and it's time for brakes then this isn't a bad deal. The added cost of the parking brake makes me raise a brow but that's about it.
I got brand new Forgestars F14 coming in and I just did a full brake job so I'm out but...6months ago I would strongly considered going this route.
***Edit***
One of the wheel bearing failures was catastrophic and cost me $400 b/c I needed it immediately - track day event.
If it's that time for brakes/rotors then good timing - no money lost going with rotors that fit this application. I would say to others that if you are still using OEM hubs and it's time for brakes then this isn't a bad deal. The added cost of the parking brake makes me raise a brow but that's about it.
I got brand new Forgestars F14 coming in and I just did a full brake job so I'm out but...6months ago I would strongly considered going this route.
***Edit***
One of the wheel bearing failures was catastrophic and cost me $400 b/c I needed it immediately - track day event.
Last edited by philistine; 04-08-2014 at 11:34 PM.
04-08-2014, 11:25 PM
#67
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[QUOTE=Creative Steel;18138024]Lots of good conversation going on here.
I/we are not going to leave anyone hanging out to dry when it comes to replacement hubs if and when someone needs them down the road. I'm about as boring/stable as anyone you will ever meet...I'm not going anywhere. As long as telephones and the internet are around I will be reach-able. If for some reason I stop doing these kits I will list the part numbers and dimensions required to have any machine shop duplicate these hubs.
We looked at the parts involved in this project. We determined that ALL the parts involved are "wear" parts. We chose to modify the hubs because they are "less" of a wear item than the rotors and they are easier/cheaper to ship. More importantly than that, we are unaware of hubs that bolt to the CTS-V that come factory with a 5 on 120mm bolt pattern.
with the lil experience I have in dealing with CS, I really like their customer relations and support so far.
I/we are not going to leave anyone hanging out to dry when it comes to replacement hubs if and when someone needs them down the road. I'm about as boring/stable as anyone you will ever meet...I'm not going anywhere. As long as telephones and the internet are around I will be reach-able. If for some reason I stop doing these kits I will list the part numbers and dimensions required to have any machine shop duplicate these hubs.
We looked at the parts involved in this project. We determined that ALL the parts involved are "wear" parts. We chose to modify the hubs because they are "less" of a wear item than the rotors and they are easier/cheaper to ship. More importantly than that, we are unaware of hubs that bolt to the CTS-V that come factory with a 5 on 120mm bolt pattern.
with the lil experience I have in dealing with CS, I really like their customer relations and support so far.
04-08-2014, 11:48 PM
#68
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The crummy part about the parking brake and what drives up the cost is the fact that GM doesn't sell the Camaro parking brake assembly as an "assembly". We have to piece it together part by part. Some of it comes from GM, some from RockAuto and some we make because we can make it cheaper than buy it.
Philistine is 100% correct. This 5 lug swap is not for the guy that is not already in the market for one of the other big ticket items required to perform the swap ie: Tires or Wheels or Rotors or Wheel Bearings.
We are not trying to minimalize the size of this project. What we were trying to do is make this a "one stop shopping" experience for the guy that was already thinking about doing it on his own. We didn't re-invent anything here (maybe a little on the parking brake), this project has been done before. Obviously, feel free to research what is required to do this swap without our kit.
I think that if you add up the parts to be purchased, the price of the machine work and the time required to figure out what parts work with what you will find that the kit price is not out of line.
Right Back at ya Soft-V, thanks for the support
Philistine is 100% correct. This 5 lug swap is not for the guy that is not already in the market for one of the other big ticket items required to perform the swap ie: Tires or Wheels or Rotors or Wheel Bearings.
We are not trying to minimalize the size of this project. What we were trying to do is make this a "one stop shopping" experience for the guy that was already thinking about doing it on his own. We didn't re-invent anything here (maybe a little on the parking brake), this project has been done before. Obviously, feel free to research what is required to do this swap without our kit.
I think that if you add up the parts to be purchased, the price of the machine work and the time required to figure out what parts work with what you will find that the kit price is not out of line.
Right Back at ya Soft-V, thanks for the support
04-09-2014, 12:19 AM
#69
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The crummy part about the parking brake and what drives up the cost is the fact that GM doesn't sell the Camaro parking brake assembly as an "assembly". We have to piece it together part by part. Some of it comes from GM, some from RockAuto and some we make because we can make it cheaper than buy it.
Philistine is 100% correct. This 5 lug swap is not for the guy that is not already in the market for one of the other big ticket items required to perform the swap ie: Tires or Wheels or Rotors or Wheel Bearings.
We are not trying to minimalize the size of this project. What we were trying to do is make this a "one stop shopping" experience for the guy that was already thinking about doing it on his own. We didn't re-invent anything here (maybe a little on the parking brake), this project has been done before. Obviously, feel free to research what is required to do this swap without our kit.
I think that if you add up the parts to be purchased, the price of the machine work and the time required to figure out what parts work with what you will find that the kit price is not out of line.
Right Back at ya Soft-V, thanks for the support
Philistine is 100% correct. This 5 lug swap is not for the guy that is not already in the market for one of the other big ticket items required to perform the swap ie: Tires or Wheels or Rotors or Wheel Bearings.
We are not trying to minimalize the size of this project. What we were trying to do is make this a "one stop shopping" experience for the guy that was already thinking about doing it on his own. We didn't re-invent anything here (maybe a little on the parking brake), this project has been done before. Obviously, feel free to research what is required to do this swap without our kit.
I think that if you add up the parts to be purchased, the price of the machine work and the time required to figure out what parts work with what you will find that the kit price is not out of line.
Right Back at ya Soft-V, thanks for the support
04-14-2014, 05:40 PM
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04-15-2014, 12:12 PM
#74
2006 c6 hubs and 2010 camaro ss rotors.. local machine shop charged 30$ to open up the camaro rotor to clear hub... everything bolted up perfect... ebay rotors and hubs you can have a machine or axle shop drill your factory rear rotors to keep parking brake!
04-15-2014, 12:56 PM
#76
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Congratulations, looks good. I applaud you as this is definitely the cheapest alternative if guys are wanting to go this route. However, there are a few draw backs.
1.) $42 Ebay corvette hubs. How long do you expect them to last? How hard is it to change them out if they go bad?(the rears are a PITA!)
2.) Front C6 hubs don't exactly just "bolt up". You will either beat the hub in, damaging the speed sensor, or have to grind your knuckle. Not hard, just extra.
3.) C6 hubs are still 5x4.75" not 5x120mm. You may not mind, but as a company we can't risk that. I guess a benefit is you can keep your lug nuts!
4.) Yes, a machine shop can bore out a rotor for pretty cheap. But now every time you buy rotors, you are looking at an extra $120 just to make them fit. If you cut the 5x4.75" on your rears to keep the E-brake, you will again have to do that and the boring to make them fit.
Machining the hubs was the "best" way we found. Is it a wear item, certainly. Is it guaranteed to last 10+ years, no clue(AAIIIC had a SKF speed sensor go out in 11 months.) Hubs usually last longer than rotors, and to be able to get a rotor off the shelf and bolt it on is the cheaper route over time.
04-15-2014, 01:29 PM
#77
i apologize for blasting your page i just realized it was a thread started by you!! i was just looking at a budget point of view.. your company will definitely make a better and safer product just like everything you produce!!
04-15-2014, 05:51 PM
#78
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I just want it known that we aren't buying off the shelf products, and reselling them untouched, making 300% profit.
