Drive shaft Opinions please
05-01-2014, 12:11 PM
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Drive shaft Opinions please I'm replacing the drive shaft in my car in a couple of weeks. The shop is ordering me a DSS aluminum drive shaft. Should I spend the extra money for the Carbon fiber drive shaft? Any extra benefits using the carbon fiber shaft other than it handling extra power? Obviously the carbon fiber one weighs less than the factory one but there is no weight listed on DSS's web site anyone have a clue what it weighs? Is the factory driveshaft is 34lbs?
My car is all stock and the reason I'm really doing all this stuff now is because the wheel hop is terrible, also if I add more power in the future I will have the car ready to handle it.
My car is all stock and the reason I'm really doing all this stuff now is because the wheel hop is terrible, also if I add more power in the future I will have the car ready to handle it.
05-01-2014, 12:18 PM
#3
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Save up for an 8.8 kit. CS kits have Driveshaft options, that way you only have to do it once. For me, I care about durability first, then power. I like the two piece chromoly-aluminum shafts myself. They are very hard to break. I know carbon is strong but after surfing on a supposedly unbreakable carbon surfboard aaaand breaking, I am a little lacking in faith, especially on a daily driver. Course, some of that may be because I drive in California and I have to avoid road debris every single day on the freeway. I could only imagine how well it would hold up if I couldn't avoid the 2x4 that just flew out of the illegal alien framer's truck in front of me. Bang... Carbon everywhere shredding peoples tires... FML.
Carbon will weigh less and cause less parasitic loss during operation, there by allowing more power to get to the rear wheels. And despite my reservations they are VERY strong. But that said, I would stay with a chromoly-aluminum combo like stock.
Carbon will weigh less and cause less parasitic loss during operation, there by allowing more power to get to the rear wheels. And despite my reservations they are VERY strong. But that said, I would stay with a chromoly-aluminum combo like stock.
05-01-2014, 12:22 PM
#4
TECH Fanatic
Critical Speed:
This is the probably the most influential factor in driving the purchase of an aftermarket driveshaft. The critical speed of a spinning shaft is described as the lowest speed which excites the shaft at it's natural frequency of vibration. This will cause the shaft to bend under the stress of vibration coupled with the centrifugal forces due to the rotation. In English, this means the shaft will vibrate very badly and possibly take a permanent bend (if not destroy the car in the process) as the critical speed is exceeded.
05-01-2014, 12:24 PM
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05-01-2014, 12:31 PM
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Save up for an 8.8 kit. CS kits have Driveshaft options, that way you only have to do it once. For me, I care about durability first, then power. I like the two piece chromoly-aluminum shafts myself. They are very hard to break. I know carbon is strong but after surfing on a supposedly unbreakable carbon surfboard aaaand breaking, I am a little lacking in faith, especially on a daily driver. Course, some of that may be because I drive in California and I have to avoid road debris every single day on the freeway. I could only imagine how well it would hold up if I couldn't avoid the 2x4 that just flew out of the illegal alien framer's truck in front of me. Bang... Carbon everywhere shredding peoples tires... FML.
Carbon will weigh less and cause less parasitic loss during operation, there by allowing more power to get to the rear wheels. And despite my reservations they are VERY strong. But that said, I would stay with a chromoly-aluminum combo like stock.
Carbon will weigh less and cause less parasitic loss during operation, there by allowing more power to get to the rear wheels. And despite my reservations they are VERY strong. But that said, I would stay with a chromoly-aluminum combo like stock.
If I do add more power it will be N/A. I don't want to go crazy because its such a rare car.
05-01-2014, 12:35 PM
#7
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Creative steel offers one in their 8.8 kits. Its just a standard two piece. DSS makes them I think. Its nothing special but it is quite strong. And its not nearly as light as the carbon. But I'm not going to pay half again as much extra for carbon.
Edit... Picture
https://creative-steel.com/store/ind...mages&p=68&i=9
Edit... Picture
https://creative-steel.com/store/ind...mages&p=68&i=9
Last edited by ryridesmotox; 05-01-2014 at 12:43 PM.
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05-01-2014, 12:35 PM
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for a DD i would get the more rugged aluminum which is capable of handling much more than 140mph.
BTW...planes have aluminum engine components that spin pretty quick.
BTW...planes have aluminum engine components that spin pretty quick.
05-01-2014, 12:46 PM
#9
Not quite. Though I suppose it could come apart. Critical speed refers to the vibration at speed.
Critical Speed:
This is the probably the most influential factor in driving the purchase of an aftermarket driveshaft. The critical speed of a spinning shaft is described as the lowest speed which excites the shaft at it's natural frequency of vibration. This will cause the shaft to bend under the stress of vibration coupled with the centrifugal forces due to the rotation. In English, this means the shaft will vibrate very badly and possibly take a permanent bend (if not destroy the car in the process) as the critical speed is exceeded.
Critical Speed:
This is the probably the most influential factor in driving the purchase of an aftermarket driveshaft. The critical speed of a spinning shaft is described as the lowest speed which excites the shaft at it's natural frequency of vibration. This will cause the shaft to bend under the stress of vibration coupled with the centrifugal forces due to the rotation. In English, this means the shaft will vibrate very badly and possibly take a permanent bend (if not destroy the car in the process) as the critical speed is exceeded.
Either way you go, DSS will make a spacer so you can reuse your stock replacement shaft if you swap into an 8.8.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...eshafts-5.html
05-01-2014, 01:21 PM
#11
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DSS 1 piece carbon fiber. weights around 27lbs including box it ships in.
Fits perfect with katech shifter and haven't had any issues. Driveability is much improved over stock. Power delivery is instant with no perceivable windup present.
Definitely money well spent.
Because a single peice AL isn't as strong, they need to make it a bigger diameter and it also has a lower critical speed than the CF one. Some people have mentioned interference with certain short throw aftermarket shifters using the large aluminum shaft.
Fits perfect with katech shifter and haven't had any issues. Driveability is much improved over stock. Power delivery is instant with no perceivable windup present.
Definitely money well spent.
Because a single peice AL isn't as strong, they need to make it a bigger diameter and it also has a lower critical speed than the CF one. Some people have mentioned interference with certain short throw aftermarket shifters using the large aluminum shaft.
05-01-2014, 01:28 PM
#12
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I thought that's the reason they made two piece driveshafts. They use half the length to increase the critical speed. A huge diameter one piece has to be used but if you chop it down and support it in the middle, you can increase the speed rating. That's the whole advantage behind the 2 piece shaft.
05-01-2014, 01:29 PM
#13
Why did Cadillac ever use a 2 piece and why would we want to replace it with a 2 piece if the one piece works? Money??
Edit....lools like motox answered that one
05-01-2014, 01:38 PM
#14
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OEm uses 2 piece for price reasons.
I wanted to eliminate the carrier bearing all together because i don't want to ever change the DS again while also shedding some weight and improving driveline efficiency. The more links you have the less efficient your power delivery is. 1 piece is the best solution. Even with a new two piece DS it won't be as efficient as a 1piece. There will always be movement in the joint, and if it is direct mounted to the body without some kind of isolation there will be some bad noise transmission through the body into the cabin.
I wanted to eliminate the carrier bearing all together because i don't want to ever change the DS again while also shedding some weight and improving driveline efficiency. The more links you have the less efficient your power delivery is. 1 piece is the best solution. Even with a new two piece DS it won't be as efficient as a 1piece. There will always be movement in the joint, and if it is direct mounted to the body without some kind of isolation there will be some bad noise transmission through the body into the cabin.
05-01-2014, 02:34 PM
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AFAIK, the manufacturers only started using 2 piece shafts because some of the older full sized cars and trucks were so long they couldn't keep the vibrations out of a single piece shaft in those applications....for some reason, I want to think 70" is what the driveshaft guy told me was the breaking point when I tried to convince him to build me a 1 piece shaft for a truck I had.
Why did Cadillac ever use a 2 piece and why would we want to replace it with a 2 piece if the one piece works? Money??
Edit....lools like motox answered that one
Why did Cadillac ever use a 2 piece and why would we want to replace it with a 2 piece if the one piece works? Money??
Edit....lools like motox answered that one
Money is the reason this car has many of it's short comings such as: liquid filled motor mounts, rotors that can be used on a suburban, soft bushings ect. FYI someone I know (he has a manual V6 and gets wheel hop) actually discussed the whole wheel hop issue with an engineer that worked on the sigma platform.....one piece drive shaft, harder cradle bushings (this is the biggest factor), perfect cradle alignment and a larger axle is what they needed to add. That's the old GM's way of bringing a car to market. I just bought an ATS and it's night and day in quality, you can also see the effort they made in the drive quality and I have a base 2.0t auto. Only thing I did to it so far is add the forged staggered 18's with factory sized PSS's and it feels like it handles better than my V. Seeing cars like the Z28, the new Z06 and my ATS it seems like the cost cutting days are gone.
05-01-2014, 02:38 PM
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I still have some time to decide but I think I am going to spend the extra cash on the carbon fiber driveshaft.
05-01-2014, 02:53 PM
#18
I have a carbon driveshaft on my 300ZX and the only concerns anyone ever discusses on that platform are heat and torque and their impact on the epoxy used to bond the carbon shaft to the aluminum coupler at the ends. One owner in particular spun his into two pieces from too much power and R-Compound traction at the rear end... twice. I bought mine second hand from someone who ran ORR events and never had a problem. I've never read concerns about critical speeds, nor can I recall ever seeing those posted on any of the driveshaft options for that platform, both solid chromoly, one piece aluminum, or carbon. I think it gets a little over hyped on the CTS.
Steve - Why not just continue to rock the OEM driveshaft until you make the leap to more power and or an upgraded rear end? Assuming the carrier bearing and rubber surround are still intact.
Steve - Why not just continue to rock the OEM driveshaft until you make the leap to more power and or an upgraded rear end? Assuming the carrier bearing and rubber surround are still intact.
05-01-2014, 03:00 PM
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I have a carbon driveshaft on my 300ZX and the only concerns anyone ever discusses on that platform are heat and torque and their impact on the epoxy used to bond the carbon shaft to the aluminum coupler at the ends. One owner in particular spun his into two pieces from too much power and R-Compound traction at the rear end... twice. I bought mine second hand from someone who ran ORR events and never had a problem. I've never read concerns about critical speeds, nor can I recall ever seeing those posted on any of the driveshaft options for that platform, both solid chromoly, one piece aluminum, or carbon. I think it gets a little over hyped on the CTS.
Steve - Why not just continue to rock the OEM driveshaft until you make the leap to more power and or an upgraded rear end? Assuming the carrier bearing and rubber surround are still intact.
Steve - Why not just continue to rock the OEM driveshaft until you make the leap to more power and or an upgraded rear end? Assuming the carrier bearing and rubber surround are still intact.
I just want to get it done and over with. I figure then I can decide the next step with the car. If I'm happy with the way it is I'll leave it and buy a project. One of my cars on my bucket list is a 300ZXTT. Is yours a turbo? I love those cars.
05-01-2014, 04:56 PM
#20
I have a carbon driveshaft on my 300ZX and the only concerns anyone ever discusses on that platform are heat and torque and their impact on the epoxy used to bond the carbon shaft to the aluminum coupler at the ends. One owner in particular spun his into two pieces from too much power and R-Compound traction at the rear end... twice. I bought mine second hand from someone who ran ORR events and never had a problem. I've never read concerns about critical speeds, nor can I recall ever seeing those posted on any of the driveshaft options for that platform, both solid chromoly, one piece aluminum, or carbon. I think it gets a little over hyped on the CTS.
Steve - Why not just continue to rock the OEM driveshaft until you make the leap to more power and or an upgraded rear end? Assuming the carrier bearing and rubber surround are still intact.
Steve - Why not just continue to rock the OEM driveshaft until you make the leap to more power and or an upgraded rear end? Assuming the carrier bearing and rubber surround are still intact.