raven154

iTrader: (14)

Well I finally got the car running but it seems my magnavolt or fuel pump is on the fritz. Now that its just my toy and I live 1.5 miles from an E85 station instead of 30, I want to convert it over. I have seen deedubs inline 255 that seemed to work for him but I would really rather do an intake pump.

I would love to drop the coin and do the twin in tank pumps on regulated return system but thats a little steep. I was wondering what in tank pump you guys recommend for E85 that could utilize the stock fuel lines just for ease of installation. The maggie already has 60lb injectors and I will be installing a racetronix hot wire kit as well. I was thinking the Kyosan 285 or maybe the DW300 but truth is I'm just not sure what would work and keep up with E85. I do know that some of those bigger pumps have issues draining the bucket.

The maggie is just a 112 with a 2.7" jackshaft pulley with 8" crank making 10lbs. Its a 9.5:1 motor with cam, headers, and stock 243 heads.

Thanks for the help guys

ryridesmotox

Do philistines dual 300 in take mod. That will solve your problem for good.

You need about 3.789 metric tons of fuel on E85. You use about 30% more fuel so you have to account for that in the fuel system. Also, consider getting new lines and cleaning out the tank first... Or getting about 9 fuel filters. E85 strips the "varnish" that normal fuel leaves behind after a decade. All that will clog filters and injectors.

ryridesmotox

You can also mix fuels... Like half n half 91&E85 or whatever your local premium fuel is

InfrareV

I wouldn't recommend this, it would certainly work in theory but how would you manage the logistics? Maybe for a race car, but not a street driven V. The tune isn't going to be able to compensate for getting the mix wrong at the pump.

ryridesmotox

I did it in my last car for 3 years. No problems at all. 2 card swipes, then you just put equal amounts of fuel in the tank. Its not hard. I managed in on a turbo cobalt LNF running 27psi. I assure you its quite normal. If you go on cobalt forums a lot of street driven SS balts get E47... Which is roughly the %of E after you mix E85 with 91 or 93 at 50/50 ratio

Naf

iTrader: (1)

Wouldnt u need a e85 sensor so the timin and fuel injection compensate for the increased fuel and timin requirements?

I know ppl here that run e85 but have to retune just for it. Runnin ridicules timin numbers...i actually dropped my timin and my vehicles feel great on the road...

punishmentcycle

iTrader: (6)

The single dw300 should in theory be fine for the 112. I ended up getting the pump and harness from race tronix and ditched the magma volt for a 40amP KB bap. I'm staying with strait 93 though. I should have time to get it installed by next week then it's tuning time for the 122. FYI I'm seeing 17 psi with the 122 >:-)

DMM

The DW will be just fine. DeDubb really screwed up badly in that he installed the inline pump in place of the fuel filter and as such had absolutely no regulation of the fuel system. Also, the OS' for 04-07 do no support a flex fuel sensor. I believe there is a truck or van OS that we may be able to use but tha is a LOT of work for little benefit.

I'm at 10 lbs with my E-Force and am at the limits of the single DW. You'll be fine.

ryridesmotox

Are you guys trying to run dual map tunes or some such with a flex fuel sensor? I didn't have any of that in my cobalt. You just have 2 separate tune files on your computer. When you want to change to E you just filler up and drive for like 25-30 miles... Then load on your ethanol tune. Its really pretty simple. The ethanol sensors in the newer cars would be nice. But its enough to have a wideband and a good tune for either and just swap tunes.

DMM

It's not a dual map. The Stoich AFR table is adjustable from 0-100% of ethanol. Even though we have the table, the flex fuel coding is not present in our software. Even is you did install a flex fuel sensor, the PCM wouldn't know what to do with the data. Here is what the table looks like in the tune:

grocerygetter

iTrader: (2)

what about the pump LPE lists?

ryridesmotox

Yea i hear that, but with E85 you can run a lot more timing as well. Controlling fueling is one aspect (I would submit probably the more important one since running lean kills motors with the quickness). But timing is another one that has to be controlled, as well as injector pulse windows.

Basically, just throwing the right lambda is only half the issue, and even at that, you can (and should) run the motor richer... Being that ethanol is an alcohol base, it has oxygen molecules in the carbon chain and that also needs to be accounted for during tuning. I'd have to look at my old tune but I think I was running .83 on my cobalt on E47. On 91 I was a few .0x leaner... I wanna say .88 but I can't remember... I'd have to double check.

Edit: just to clarify what I'm trying to say, not having a sensor or coding in the ecu to detect Ethanol doesn't mean we can't run it. Get a good wideband and start tuning. I'm sure the hpt forums would have a lot more info on where to start with lambda and timing, I wouldn't just start where the I did in my cobalt, LNF motors and LS motors are considerably different. I have to say, no matter how you end up going about it, or no matter who you have tune it... It is with it to get your own software and have 2 tunes. Ethanol isn't wide spread enough to count on it when you go on long trips. A lot of localities don't have it yet. Plus you get prreeeety terrible fuel economy with it no matter what. You use a lot more fuel.

raven154

iTrader: (14)

Looks like a DW300 it is. If I get it tuned for E85, that's the only thing I'll have in it. It will never be a daily driver again and like I said I'm less than two miles from an E85 station and 6 miles from work. The best gas we can get at the pump here in OK is 91 and from the all the conversions I've seen its about a 50hp or more pump to go E.

Plus my friend is going to build a 416 LS3 to go in his V so I need a little extra to make sure he doesn't walk me lol

ryridesmotox

With my cobalt (2.0 Turbo) it went from 350whp +/- and 370ftlbs up to 380whp and 420ftlbs. For what it costs, easily worth the upgrade. A lot of that was made up because it allowed me to run a lot more boost and timing. And that was mixing 50/50 E85/91 to make E47. The direct injection couldn't get enough Ethanol in the cylinders so us cobalt guys made up for it by mixing. Not ideal, but it was workable.

By a lot I mean about 6 psi more. And like 9° of timing. But I was still on a stock turbo and it wasn't a happy camper. At the higher boost level on E I could hear the wastegate working hard.

raven154

iTrader: (14)

More boost is always fun. Any more 122's punishment? What kind of numbers are you putting down on 17lbs?

DMM

So, this is where things get complicated and people get confused. Different fuel blends have different stoichiometric ratio's (gasoline is 14.7:1, ethanol is 9:1, and E85 is 9.8:1) for a complete theoretical burn (assuming ideal conditions).

The Lambda scale removes the variables associated with the different fuels. A complete burn with any fuel will register as 1 Lambda. So while the stoich may vary between fuels from 14.7:1 to 9:1, you can target 1 Lambda rather than mess with all of the variances. For enrichment, you can target one value regardless of fuel (0.80 lambda for boost enrichment for example) and the same enrichment rate will apply regardless of fuel.

The O2 sensors register lambda and the PCM converts to AFR values.

I probably could have done a much better job explaining this, but I'm tired and don't give a ****.

ryridesmotox

I hear that... There are tons of variables in tunes and such, even car to car. I'm not gonna lie, it took a lot of time to get the cobalt dialed in correctly. We started with E47 and tried E85 but the stock fuel injectors couldn't keep up, so we tried a few different mixes. It all gets lost in the fray in my mind sometimes.

I was just trying to point out that its not just in the afr scaling tables. There is a lot of other stuff going on. Tuning can be a pain when you're trying new things and experimenting with stuff. I got help from the best cobalt tuner I could find to email tune my car. He's probably going to help me with my V also since he does his LS3 as well.

raven154

iTrader: (14)

Ok so I go to the site and there are a bunch of different options. Which one did you guys buy? There is one that says DW300 in tank pump and then there is also a universal. I'm assuming you guys are just getting the in tank?

http://www.deatschwerks.com/products...s/dw300-detail

tmonttt

iTrader: (10)

I used the DW-301-1000 (Universal Fit) without any problems.

DMM

I called DW and asked them. They had a V1 module there and the tech sent me everything I needed. I'd just call them.