Group Buy - philistine aftermarket clutch master cylinder.
09-17-2014, 10:28 AM
#143
TECH Fanatic
Hey guys, not sure if this was covered already...
If you have the knurled collar with the 3 tapped set screw holes... Do yourself a favor and thread the set screws in before you install the collar. I got it all up there and tight and realized that the screws were kind of a pain. Don't thread them all the way through, but like most of the way.
If you have the knurled collar with the 3 tapped set screw holes... Do yourself a favor and thread the set screws in before you install the collar. I got it all up there and tight and realized that the screws were kind of a pain. Don't thread them all the way through, but like most of the way.
09-17-2014, 11:28 AM
#144
Hey guys, not sure if this was covered already...
If you have the knurled collar with the 3 tapped set screw holes... Do yourself a favor and thread the set screws in before you install the collar. I got it all up there and tight and realized that the screws were kind of a pain. Don't thread them all the way through, but like most of the way.
If you have the knurled collar with the 3 tapped set screw holes... Do yourself a favor and thread the set screws in before you install the collar. I got it all up there and tight and realized that the screws were kind of a pain. Don't thread them all the way through, but like most of the way.
09-17-2014, 12:15 PM
#145
TECH Fanatic
Have you done yours yet? Its not too bad at all, compared to all I did this last weekend. And it works absolutely BEAUTIFULLY with the current clutch (LS9). In fact I went to have some exhaust work done and the guy that owns the shop had an 06 V1. We talked for quite a while. He said he had to shim his and it always gave him problems. He tried an ACT and a rps twin disc... No help. He sold his about a year ago sadly so no help for him.
I used no shims, I had my fingers crossed the whole time praying that it would work... And it does, flawlessly. It's barely firmer at all.
My buddy that helped me with the install works in a Bette specialist shop and has a 4th gen Z/28 and he was surprised at the quality for the price.
I used no shims, I had my fingers crossed the whole time praying that it would work... And it does, flawlessly. It's barely firmer at all.
My buddy that helped me with the install works in a Bette specialist shop and has a 4th gen Z/28 and he was surprised at the quality for the price.
09-17-2014, 01:45 PM
#146
Have you done yours yet? Its not too bad at all, compared to all I did this last weekend. And it works absolutely BEAUTIFULLY with the current clutch (LS9). In fact I went to have some exhaust work done and the guy that owns the shop had an 06 V1. We talked for quite a while. He said he had to shim his and it always gave him problems. He tried an ACT and a rps twin disc... No help. He sold his about a year ago sadly so no help for him.
I used no shims, I had my fingers crossed the whole time praying that it would work... And it does, flawlessly. It's barely firmer at all.
My buddy that helped me with the install works in a Bette specialist shop and has a 4th gen Z/28 and he was surprised at the quality for the price.
I used no shims, I had my fingers crossed the whole time praying that it would work... And it does, flawlessly. It's barely firmer at all.
My buddy that helped me with the install works in a Bette specialist shop and has a 4th gen Z/28 and he was surprised at the quality for the price.
look forward to it though....nice looking stuff. We're fortunate to have someone engineer, and I mean engineer, and produce this. Hope he makes a few bucks!
09-17-2014, 02:06 PM
#147
No kidding. Jaysen is a whiz with this stuff and has been a huge help to me and I know many others.
I've been swapping out clutch parts and my slave the past couple days and finally was able to get a proper bleed and wow... The car has never shifted so smoothly and crisply as it does now. I had unknowingly been dealing with a leaking speed bleeder due to a half assed install job (my own fault having a sharp bend on the line as it exited the bellhousing). This "mod" really is a game changer when it comes to truly enjoying the driving experience in one of these cars.
09-18-2014, 07:07 AM
#148
Yeah, same design as the C5 and C6, swapped out one for my dad in his car. I'm fairly certain I saw a complete spring, but lets say it was broken, the internal spring in the Tilton should be enough to return the clutch pedal? If that's the case, something must be binding.
Things were normal after the initial install, but the clutch friction point was significantly higher on the pedal stroke and modulation very grabby. After adjusting the threaded push rod to lower the friction point back to where it was with the OEM MC, the pedal return problem started. The problem lessened the more I unscrewed the threaded rod, which increased the pedal stroke and brought the pedal to a higher resting point. I attributed that to the pedal travel increasing past the changeover point on the clutch spring. At any point near the red paint on the MC push rod, the threaded end definitely limits the upper travel of the pedal, meaning the pedal has to be compressed before the MC can be attached. I'm not sure mow much compression was required with the OEM MC and it it possibly had a longer rod arm.
Things were normal after the initial install, but the clutch friction point was significantly higher on the pedal stroke and modulation very grabby. After adjusting the threaded push rod to lower the friction point back to where it was with the OEM MC, the pedal return problem started. The problem lessened the more I unscrewed the threaded rod, which increased the pedal stroke and brought the pedal to a higher resting point. I attributed that to the pedal travel increasing past the changeover point on the clutch spring. At any point near the red paint on the MC push rod, the threaded end definitely limits the upper travel of the pedal, meaning the pedal has to be compressed before the MC can be attached. I'm not sure mow much compression was required with the OEM MC and it it possibly had a longer rod arm.
Does it make sense to just remove the stock clutch return spring?
09-18-2014, 07:22 AM
#149
The clutch pedal spring is designed to help aged retirees press the pedal DOWN and make it easier to shift the car, not return it upwards. Tilton and Wilwood both recommend that you remove it because it fights against the springs internal to their MCs.
09-18-2014, 10:00 AM
#151
I would suggest removing the factory return spring if it is still in tact. I've been running a Tilton for a while and actually ended up damaging it from what I *assume* was the factory return spring throwing the pedal all the way up and opening the master all the way up harshly. The Tilton wasnt designed that way as there is a little bit of play at the top and its not supposed to be slung all the way back open. Just my .02. My pedal feels WAY better once I removed it
09-28-2014, 06:24 PM
#152
Teching In
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Has anyone figured out a good solution for sealing the firewall? My brother installed his PMC and we could see light from inside the car through the firewall, so I want to place some type of seal there. Is reusing the stock grommet a good solution?
We also measured the hose barb on the stock master cylinder, and it's for a 5/16" hose. The one included in the kit is for a 1/4" hose. My brother found a male -4 AN to 5/16" hose barb fitting (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-15628) and ordered one for each of us. I'm sure the 1/4" barb would work with a clamp, but I'd prefer the correct size.
We also measured the hose barb on the stock master cylinder, and it's for a 5/16" hose. The one included in the kit is for a 1/4" hose. My brother found a male -4 AN to 5/16" hose barb fitting (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-15628) and ordered one for each of us. I'm sure the 1/4" barb would work with a clamp, but I'd prefer the correct size.
09-29-2014, 10:18 AM
#153
The problem with the seal design is that the MC penetrates the firewall at an angle. In theory, of you had the means to enlarge the existing hole by a few mm, the stock seal would pop in perfectly and has relief built in to compensate for the non-perpendicular install. I hope to never be in the position, but if I have to pull the MC out again, I would trim the smallest diameter rim of the stock seal off and use just the larger, circular flap piece to create a seal over the hole. As it sits now, I may run a small bead of RTV across the top 1/3 of the seal where its not sitting flush against the firewall. The bottom half is pretty well compressed due to the angle of the MC.
If you want to roll your own before your install, hack up the stocker or cut a disc from a flat piece of rubber big enough to cover the hole in the firewall. Ideally there would be enough overlap that you could run a thin line of sealant along the perimeter. Cut an inner circle out so that it will slip onto the new MC and create a tight seal against it.
It's a moot point now, but I tried all the usual methods, minus heat, to get the arm off. My car has sat outside 24/7 its entire life, see's salt, snow and rain, so my starting point may have been a little different. The take home is the passenger side can be popped off easily with a $15 gear puller if necessary and the driver side does not need to be removed.
If you want to roll your own before your install, hack up the stocker or cut a disc from a flat piece of rubber big enough to cover the hole in the firewall. Ideally there would be enough overlap that you could run a thin line of sealant along the perimeter. Cut an inner circle out so that it will slip onto the new MC and create a tight seal against it.
It's a moot point now, but I tried all the usual methods, minus heat, to get the arm off. My car has sat outside 24/7 its entire life, see's salt, snow and rain, so my starting point may have been a little different. The take home is the passenger side can be popped off easily with a $15 gear puller if necessary and the driver side does not need to be removed.
This^^^^...I think
09-29-2014, 03:36 PM
#154
I have had mine installed for about 3 weeks so far and the MC is about optimum. The slight increase in bore size is really the ideal solution to ensure the proper clutch disengagement. It is really nice to be able to hit first gear, 99 out of 100, instead of doing the 1-2-1-2-1 row. Overall the kit is mechanically top notch and very well documented for a one off type of product. Congrats Jaysen! As noted, the only real issues I had with the install was the stubby 19mm wrench. Thankfully I had a stubby 3/4". The only install frustration was the clutch switch, which really has nothing to do with kit.
I would not recommend thread locker on the push rod, God forbid you should ever have to remove or adjust it. Without it, I am able to adjust the position with one hand.
I am having the pedal return problem occasionally, where it stops about 1/2" from the top. Hopefully it is a broken clutch pedal spring. I didn't realize that there was one because during initial bleeding it just stays on the floor without the clutch spring pushing back.
Michael
I would not recommend thread locker on the push rod, God forbid you should ever have to remove or adjust it. Without it, I am able to adjust the position with one hand.
I am having the pedal return problem occasionally, where it stops about 1/2" from the top. Hopefully it is a broken clutch pedal spring. I didn't realize that there was one because during initial bleeding it just stays on the floor without the clutch spring pushing back.
Michael
09-29-2014, 03:54 PM
#155
As I extended the threaded rod and brought the clutch engagement point higher off the floor, the top portion of the stroke felt less sloppy and the clutch would return to full extension on its own. Mind you, the difference between rod adjustments when the pedal would and wouldn't return was only 2-2.5 full turns. I accepted a slightly higher engagement point to eliminate the return problem.
Now if I can just get it to stop squeaking...
09-29-2014, 04:51 PM
#156
My spring wasn't broken, and after further adjusting, it seems the set-up is sensitive to the rod adjustment length. As I got my clutch pedal engagement point closer to where it was with the OEM MC, I had more dead slop at the top of the stroke and more times than not, the pedal would not return on its own for the last bit of travel.
As I extended the threaded rod and brought the clutch engagement point higher off the floor, the top portion of the stroke felt less sloppy and the clutch would return to full extension on its own. Mind you, the difference between rod adjustments when the pedal would and wouldn't return was only 2-2.5 full turns. I accepted a slightly higher engagement point to eliminate the return problem.
As I extended the threaded rod and brought the clutch engagement point higher off the floor, the top portion of the stroke felt less sloppy and the clutch would return to full extension on its own. Mind you, the difference between rod adjustments when the pedal would and wouldn't return was only 2-2.5 full turns. I accepted a slightly higher engagement point to eliminate the return problem.
I did adjust mine a little on the low side. When I first started to thread in until the pedal reached the stop, I noticed that the MC had already reached it's stop and the pedal stop was not really preventing me from hitting the Tilton stop. So I ended up adding about 2 full turns to get it where it seemed that the pedal stop was actually the first stop. Interesting that the higher adjustment works better. I will give it a try!
Michael
09-29-2014, 05:13 PM
#157
I spoke with Tilton Engineering to confirm the "dead" travel on their master cylinders. This was briefly discussed during the design stages of the adapter. There is a cut-off port internal to the master cylinder. As the master cylinder is stroked it passes the cut-off port to the reservoir and then makes full pressure. This cut-off port also prevents over-pressurization of the hydraulic system.
The adjustable setting of the rod-arm on the Tilton push-rod will NOT allow defeating of the cut-off port. I have the rod-arm threaded to a point where even if it is bottomed out, that the system is safe. Just wanted to get that out of the way.
Now, the "dead" zone is absolutely normal at the tip of the travel. There is a way to minimize this by removing the factory clutch spring and adjusting the rod-arm out - making it longer by 1-2 rotations.
The factory spring is fine too, if you want to leave it attached to the pedal but the Tilton MC does not utilize it in any way. There is a return spring built-in to the MC. The pedal feel will become more natural if the factory clutch spring is removed.
The mark I put on the push-rod is to be used as a reference point so that you are within 1-2 or 2-4 turns from the setting that is comfortable for the user. Personally, I have mine at the maximum setting (longer) where the plastic pedal stop is just making contact.
The adjustable setting of the rod-arm on the Tilton push-rod will NOT allow defeating of the cut-off port. I have the rod-arm threaded to a point where even if it is bottomed out, that the system is safe. Just wanted to get that out of the way.
Now, the "dead" zone is absolutely normal at the tip of the travel. There is a way to minimize this by removing the factory clutch spring and adjusting the rod-arm out - making it longer by 1-2 rotations.
The factory spring is fine too, if you want to leave it attached to the pedal but the Tilton MC does not utilize it in any way. There is a return spring built-in to the MC. The pedal feel will become more natural if the factory clutch spring is removed.
The mark I put on the push-rod is to be used as a reference point so that you are within 1-2 or 2-4 turns from the setting that is comfortable for the user. Personally, I have mine at the maximum setting (longer) where the plastic pedal stop is just making contact.
09-29-2014, 05:25 PM
#158
Is there an easy way of removing the factory spring? I crawled under there yesterday and although I couldn't find any signs of my spring being broken, I wouldn't mind taking it out to get the more natural feel of the pedals stroke. The only way I could feasibly see taking out the spring was actually cutting it at the flat spot that goes through the pedal.
Also, I'm getting a squeak from the clutch safety switch, but not real sure what to do to remedy it. Grease the CSS spring, or grease the rod arm of the MC? Any insight into that would be greatly appreciated.
Also, I'm getting a squeak from the clutch safety switch, but not real sure what to do to remedy it. Grease the CSS spring, or grease the rod arm of the MC? Any insight into that would be greatly appreciated.
09-29-2014, 05:52 PM
#159
TECH Fanatic
WD40 the squeak... I did mine about a week ago, didn't return. Mine was from where the clutch rod attached to the pedal.
If the spring ain't broke, I wouldn't worry about it much.
If the spring ain't broke, I wouldn't worry about it much.
10-04-2014, 05:17 PM
#160
...We also measured the hose barb on the stock master cylinder, and it's for a 5/16" hose. The one included in the kit is for a 1/4" hose. My brother found a male -4 AN to 5/16" hose barb fitting (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-15628) and ordered one for each of us. I'm sure the 1/4" barb would work with a clamp, but I'd prefer the correct size.