Anyone installed Philistine's MC along with a slave spacer?
12-17-2014, 11:13 PM
#83
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isis - I should have called it earlier, but I KNEW that bonehead was still stewing about the last time he offered his "opinion" on a thread I was involved with. He left a similar impression of himself over there too. That was when he refused to acknowledge that the clutch kit that I purchased off eBay was the same as an OEM kit. A quick example of how unwilling this guy is to listen to anyone else: Even after confirming that LUK was stamped on all the same parts as OEM as well as matching part numbers in both the "eBay" kit and an OEM kit, he still refused to accept that they were one in the same. His opinion that he absolutely refused to waiver on (and apparently still hasn't) is that LUK makes an OEM clutch kit and then re-tools or buys different supplies or whatever and makes lower-end/inferior kits like the one I got. Makes a lot of sense, right? That's the short of it, but clearly, this is a big reason why he couldn't help himself but to come and jumble this thread up with more of his crap. It's too bad that someone who could be so valuable around here insists on being such a douchebag. I made that word clickable in case the grammar police were going to try to tell me that it was supposed to be 2 words. 
And just for the hell of it, I'll offer my opinion on why different people are getting different results from LS7 installs. 1st off, every one of our cars is different in many ways. One way they're different is that they have all aged at varying degrees. I personally think that we hear so many conflicting experiences with LS7 installs because our hydraulic systems are not all equal. All other factors aside - it's clearly been identified that the OEM hydraulic system isn't up to snuff in some cases. But the capacity that your hydraulic systems is working at and the capacity that mine or Jaysen's or anyone else's is working at are clearly different. The guy that installs his LS7 without shimming anything or upgrading his MC or anything to that effect obviously got a V with a hydraulic system that performs better than those of us who have to work at getting the LS7 to play nice.
So why didn't shitforbrains get any noticeable results from the PMC? I think it's because he happened to have one of those V's that had a well-working MC to begin with. His issues lie elsewhere. Just my opinion, which is only deduced from all the reading I did/have done around here on the topic. I think it's a little more reasonable of a stab at explaining it then just saying that inferior parts are the issue. Pretty sure I've read of guys who got their kits from Luke @ Lindsay or other dealerships still having to shim slaves, etc. And I'm pretty sure guys who installed the OEM kits they got from an ebay vendor have slapped that kit in without doing aaaanything else, and never looked back. And the opposite can be said for either/or too. So how does that indicate issues with parts?
And just for the hell of it, I'll offer my opinion on why different people are getting different results from LS7 installs. 1st off, every one of our cars is different in many ways. One way they're different is that they have all aged at varying degrees. I personally think that we hear so many conflicting experiences with LS7 installs because our hydraulic systems are not all equal. All other factors aside - it's clearly been identified that the OEM hydraulic system isn't up to snuff in some cases. But the capacity that your hydraulic systems is working at and the capacity that mine or Jaysen's or anyone else's is working at are clearly different. The guy that installs his LS7 without shimming anything or upgrading his MC or anything to that effect obviously got a V with a hydraulic system that performs better than those of us who have to work at getting the LS7 to play nice.
So why didn't shitforbrains get any noticeable results from the PMC? I think it's because he happened to have one of those V's that had a well-working MC to begin with. His issues lie elsewhere. Just my opinion, which is only deduced from all the reading I did/have done around here on the topic. I think it's a little more reasonable of a stab at explaining it then just saying that inferior parts are the issue. Pretty sure I've read of guys who got their kits from Luke @ Lindsay or other dealerships still having to shim slaves, etc. And I'm pretty sure guys who installed the OEM kits they got from an ebay vendor have slapped that kit in without doing aaaanything else, and never looked back. And the opposite can be said for either/or too. So how does that indicate issues with parts?
Last edited by wes8398; 12-17-2014 at 11:43 PM.
12-18-2014, 01:20 PM
#86
Guess you told me...
Lets try this instead...
Has anyone ever, while replacing their OE clutch assembly, found a slave shim behind their stock slave cylinder? The answer to that would be no which should tell you that the cars are consistent.
If the cars are consistent then that only leaves one conclusion, the parts we're using aren't.
Can we agree that this could be a valid statement.....if we can, we should start a poll as to who is using what parts, where they bought them and how they worked.
Lets try this instead...
Has anyone ever, while replacing their OE clutch assembly, found a slave shim behind their stock slave cylinder? The answer to that would be no which should tell you that the cars are consistent.
If the cars are consistent then that only leaves one conclusion, the parts we're using aren't.
Can we agree that this could be a valid statement.....if we can, we should start a poll as to who is using what parts, where they bought them and how they worked.
12-18-2014, 02:34 PM
#87
we should start a poll as to who is using what parts, where they bought them and how they worked.
12-18-2014, 04:10 PM
#89
Not even close. Agreed, no shims from the factory, but the degree to which some cars can shift with ease in stock trim, and others are a bloody nightmare proves all sorts of inconsistencies 7-10 years off the showroom floor. Throwing replacement parts into the calculation only further muddies the mix.
12-18-2014, 04:46 PM
#90
Not even close. Agreed, no shims from the factory, but the degree to which some cars can shift with ease in stock trim, and others are a bloody nightmare proves all sorts of inconsistencies 7-10 years off the showroom floor. Throwing replacement parts into the calculation only further muddies the mix.
I agree that the rest of it is open for discussion.
Take a close look at the average clutch disc and it would seem it would be much more difficult to hold to any tight tolerance just because of the way it's constructed....
In other words, I disagree.
12-18-2014, 05:03 PM
#91
Honest question: Are there LS7 clutch kits that need a shim to get into the specified tolerances? 54 said F-no quite emphatically more than once. We know that shimming Wes's kit actually put him out of proper gap but was enough to alleviate his problem. The info seems to evolve over time as we learn new things, but I honestly thought, and still do, the PMC gives the more proper solution to the LS7 kit not working properly in some cars.
Has there been a single documented occurrence of an LS7 kit, with no shims, having drag and/or shifting issues after the master-cylinder is upgraded? I've not seen any.
Has there been a single documented occurrence of an LS7 kit, with no shims, having drag and/or shifting issues after the master-cylinder is upgraded? I've not seen any.
12-18-2014, 05:12 PM
#92
My ls7 kit didn't drag before I put the PMC in.
Edit- my clutch doesn't drag on the sense that when the car is sitting still, you put it in gear and give it gas the car isn't trying to move. Don't know if the clutch reacts differently under a significant load and its getting blocked out under a no lift shift scenario because my car is old and I'm to broke to break it right now....meaning I really don't push it too hard.
Last edited by ls1247; 12-18-2014 at 06:29 PM.
12-18-2014, 06:32 PM
#95
True but we're also replacing the slave cylinders which takes them out of the "as it left the factory" scenario. It also wouldn't have anything to do with whether or not your shimming because you check that long before the master cylinder is even in the equation
12-18-2014, 09:07 PM
#100
So what can be different between my car which has an ls7 kit and a PMC and say fweasels car that has supposedly the exact same stuff.
If the distance between the crank flange and the slave cylinder mounting flange were different it would explain the difference but this dimension is dictated by parts that are machined to fit. These tolerances can be very closely controlled so I'm doubting this is the problem.
We're using the same master, I don't see how the hydraulic lines could directly affect this so it really doesn't leave anything else but the flywheel the clutch the pressure plate or the slave cylinder to be at fault...
Those are the components of the average clutch kit.
I'm here to learn....what else could it be? The check valve in the hydraulic line?
Edit- the pressure plate torque values could also be different
If the distance between the crank flange and the slave cylinder mounting flange were different it would explain the difference but this dimension is dictated by parts that are machined to fit. These tolerances can be very closely controlled so I'm doubting this is the problem.
We're using the same master, I don't see how the hydraulic lines could directly affect this so it really doesn't leave anything else but the flywheel the clutch the pressure plate or the slave cylinder to be at fault...
Those are the components of the average clutch kit.
I'm here to learn....what else could it be? The check valve in the hydraulic line?
Edit- the pressure plate torque values could also be different
Last edited by ls1247; 12-20-2014 at 04:23 PM.