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Has anyone had any experience installing a water/meth injection unit on a CTS-V Generation I? The pump, harness, nozzle, wiring, etc. are all pretty generic parts but the Controllers and software appear to be different between the manufacturers such as AEM, Snow Performance, and other brands. Any pictures of where you installed the reservoir (or did you use the washer bucket), the pump, the controller, the nozzle (top, bottom, or side of the air inlet tube)? Any suggestions or recommendations on Brand, Model, installation?
Thanks
George
07 CTS-V
TX
Timely thread as I am about to take the meth plunge. I have been looking at the AEM and Alcohol Injection Systems products. I like the AEM multi input controller as I want to use the MAF signal to progressively control the meth output. The AIS nozzles and pump are attractive but the website doesn't have much info concerning the controller.
As far as nozzle placement goes it really depends on what you have done to your car. With a blower I would recommend right in front of the throttle body. Without FI I don't think I would add meth unless my compression ratio was through the roof. With a turbo system or centrifugal blower my general recommendation would be in front of the turbo/blower. This link should help http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...articles_id=40
what its worth Im running a cooling mist stage 1 simple system. nozzle is in the maggie tube after the MAF and before TB, smallest jet possible. it is actuated by a simple boost switch. basically any boost triggers the pump on..
50/50 meth to water on with a 122HH. Meth is now windshield washer fluid to take advantage of location, quantity of tank and low level sensor
Meth is now windshield washer fluid to take advantage of location, quantity of tank and low level sensor
I will be going this route as well as underhood space is limited.
Not a bad solution at all. Very simple and not a lot of chance for failures. However, I want to control the AFR during meth use. The only real way I can find is by using the MAF or IFR signals.
I know punishment has a progressive controller for meth, might want to check that thread out. Im subscribed, currently I am using it in the most basic form I feel.
AlkyControl would be my choice. I wouldnt bother with pre impeller nozzle placement, especially if one has an air to air intercooler. Id still have the nozzle pre IAT sensor (pre throttle) but Post Intercooler.
AlkyControl would be my choice. I wouldnt bother with pre impeller nozzle placement, especially if one has an air to air intercooler. Id still have the nozzle pre IAT sensor (pre throttle) but Post Intercooler.
I've seen lots of debate on that subject. The intercoolers/aftercoolers are most efficient when the temperature gradient is the greatest which supports your statement. The flip side to that argument is that compressor efficiency is dramatically increased when injecting pre-compressor. I don't have direct experience with meth so I can't provide any conclusive statements. My expectation is that it will come down to the details of the specific system.
For example if the intercooler is undersized or inefficient then injecting post intercooler makes a LOT more sense as the charge temp will still be elevated and therefore benefit from the additional cooling.
A conflicting example is in the case where the compressor is undersized but has a good intercooler. In this case the system may benefit more from the bump to compressor efficiency than it would from additional charge cooling post intercooler. IMO that is why you see so many conflicting opinions.
Nice... Any details? I'm more interested in the controller and the kit.
Aquamist HFS-3 that gets its input from a fuel injector lead. It reads IDC to determine flow then send that info to the valve that pulses like an injector. Really slick set up.
I fail to see how having it pre-blower/charger would help the charger efficiency? I guess can that be better explained? A charger is going to spin at the rate it spins (on that setup) its not until something is changed that the speed at which it spins will change. It is going to compress (heat) the incoming charge just the same, all be it the incoming charge will be cooler therefor so will the out going....but no different than if the ambient conditions changed from hot to cold. I just feel the only way to make a blower/charger more efficient would take mechanical changes (porting, pulley, compressor wheels, etc etc). The on ly way I see pre-blower as beneficial would be better atomization?
The use of meth pre blower is more for air cooling and is usually a small nozzle. In my BMW I spray a 0.3 nozzle pre SC. The reason is that once the meth hits the airstream it should flash off and absorb some of the heat in the stream.
To reproduce my set up would be around $850.
Here is what I spray with my other car.
One nozzle in the intake. One in the valute as it exits the SC and two after its been cooled before it goes into the TB. I spray 90% meth 10% water through about 1300CC worth of nozzles.
I fail to see how having it pre-blower/charger would help the charger efficiency?
The THEORY is that the pre compressor injection cools the air charge before compression and limits the amount of heating from compression (liquids are much harder to heat than air). This keeps the air charge denser throughout compression. If this is true and the turbine speed is held constant then the compressor is more efficient. Remember it is not about boost but rather the amount of additional air for combustion.
Jmargo that is definitely a nice set up and it was the Howerton stuff that got me really interested in meth as they were the first I saw with true progressive control.
The cheapest route is to just buy a pump, the line, check valve, nozzle and boost switch.
Just plumb it to your washer tank. I know people say methanol eats the paint if you use your wipers, but that only if you run a >70% solution. Then if you do that very few of the companies pumps are rated for that. Alkycontrol being one of the few that is rated.
I mounted mine behind the crash bar. And nozzle is in the maggie tube behind maf. I used to do direct injection methanol, but it is too hard to tell if one nozzle clogs, so just one 12gph nozzle for me.
Pics are with Maggie off, 700 miles before the bearings failed. Magnuson did not warranty because the tune was not theirs...
I do the cheap way, 4 bottles of Heet (yellow bottle) and 1 gallon of -20 for a 50/50 mix. Autozone gives me to it just over cost in the summer to empty out their winter supply...
I fail to see how having it pre-blower/charger would help the charger efficiency?
It helps the rotors seal primarily and cools them secondarily. Blown alcohol cars run this way with a small injection pre blower and most post blower (pro-mod style cars). It should be well proven from that stand point.
The center argument is that the blower is compressing or pumping more stuff so the work would be more for it. The sealing effect must make up for it.
On a Maggie good luck injecting it anywhere other than pre blower. I'd love to get some post IC.
jmargo, thanks for posting, that's a great setup.
Edit, reread I agree i don't know how it would help IC eff, only blower eff.
I fail to see how having it pre-blower/charger would help the charger efficiency? I guess can that be better explained? A charger is going to spin at the rate it spins (on that setup) its not until something is changed that the speed at which it spins will change. It is going to compress (heat) the incoming charge just the same, all be it the incoming charge will be cooler therefor so will the out going....but no different than if the ambient conditions changed from hot to cold. I just feel the only way to make a blower/charger more efficient would take mechanical changes (porting, pulley, compressor wheels, etc etc). The on ly way I see pre-blower as beneficial would be better atomization?
Jmargo, what did that setup cost?
As stated, It cools the charge air and drops temps in the Charger, i saw 140 before meth at 10PSI, and 83 after with 85 ambient. Forgot to mention i have an interchiller for the IC measured Post Rotors.
The water is what cools during the transition to steam. Also principles of hydraulics states water cannot be compressed, therefore limiting the space in the chamber which raises compression. with small nozzles this is not much, but when you start really spray it does.
The Methanol raises octane rating allowing for more timing which is where the power comes from. Which is why most tunners do not want to tune for methanol incase it fails.
On the V one dyno run for numbers was 28 degrees with no knock. I had them knock it back down because it is very aggressive and not worth the risk for an extra 20hp, but with methanol 50/50 i picked up 7hp with no change to the tune, and 15 with a few degrees of timing on 93 octane.
My Z on 100% picked up 40hp and allowed me to run 32 psi on pump.
My T-type 20hp on 50/50 and 21 psi on pump.
02-23-2015, 03:29 AM
Water/Meth Injection 
to take advantage of location, quantity of tank and low level sensor 
