hefftone

V2 TR-6060 pic attached.

I can see this gets rid of the coupler. But I sat in a V2 and the guys shifter felt almost as crappy as mine used to. Granted it was stock, felt like some plastic had worn out.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

There's a lot of ifs here but being a mechanic, I just can't help myself...I'm an addict. I figure I'll pass on a v2 and get into a v3 at some point so the swap is making more sense for me as I'll need a new engine and trans anyway. I should probably test drive an m6 v2 before doing this but I hate driving cars that I know are better than mine. The v1 has always been good enough because I don't know any better but there will always be something more....just ask any v2 owner that's driven a v3.

Coming to the conclusion that the v2 6060 is going to be about as good as it will ever get for a GM manual transmission and I think the car deserves it if it isn't crazy hard or expensive...it looks like it's the last of a dying breed except for the 7 speed but that swap would be above me and I don't want a vette.

I'll gear up for this (notice the pun) but it'll be a year or so before I'm in a position to do the engine and trans. Plenty of time to find deals...

hefftone

Myself, I'd be content with the camaro5 unit, except for the single piece Bell housing. That would make things significantly more .

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

From what I can tell (except for a stronger case), the camaro 6060 doesn't offer any mechanical improvements over a v1 t56 with 6060 internals and by the time you modify the driveshaft, shifter and crossmember, I doubt it would offer any real economical advantages either based on the prices suggested by TDP to do the t56 conversion.

The one thing I'm not clear about here though is the oil pump/extra lubrication and cooling that MAY be offered in the camaro 6060.

Does the camaro 6060 have the oil pump and if it does, wonder if that would make it into the v1 conversion???

runsfromdacops

ALL 6060s have the built in oil pump, thats why they have the 1 piece bell-housing.the "t56 mag" is the same as the 6060 but without the oil pump and it has a 2 piece bell-housing.

if your trying to save $$ and your handy you can go with a tr6060. youl need to mod the shifter a little, pull/drop the motor to install the motor as a "package" to clear the 1 piece bell, and maybe mod the drive shaft to fit.

sounds like a lot but its all easy ****.
the t56 MAG/tr6060 is a much better tranny both in shift feel and HP/tq holding.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

Is the oil pump upgrade worth the trouble you'll go to to shorten the driveshaft, modify the shifter and modify the crossmember?

I agree there could be some dollars to save if you can do these things and to some of us, it isn't a big deal. But no matter which way I go, I'd probably have whatever transmission I use freshened up by someone who knows what they're doing. I'm working on jackstands so it needs to go together once if at all possible.

hefftone

Why an oil pumps in the trans? Having a hard time imagining the benefits.... As in "what wasn't getting lubed before?

What about using the GTO/SSR t56 Magnum? The shifter location is only 2" short of ours seems an L-shaped shift lever could make that happen easily, if not than some chopping and Welding to the factory style shifter.
Guibo goes away, trans is off the shelf with requisite torque capaxcity....and your looking at a new driveshaft.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

Why the oil pump? Couldn't tell you but as time allows, its an answer worth looking for I guess.

Never considered the GTO/SSR transmission but if its a t56 magnum, there'd be no gains over sticking the 6060 internals into the v1 case from what I can tell.

If I'm doing any fab work, I'll just go ahead and do the v2 conversion. Shortening my 1 piece carbon shaft and using the v2 adapter DSS already makes should make the driveshaft mods pretty easy, using the mount I linked several post up should make the crossmember doable and honestly, moving the shifter opening back an inch in the floor and just using the v2 shifter assembly as it was built without any mods except for rotating the stick on the v2 hurst shifter will just require that I get it leveled right. Moving the shifter opening is something I've done before and it shouldn't be too difficult. Incorporating the swap with an engine overhaul and using an LSA or other 8 bolt flange crank should take the guess work out of the clutch assembly and a crank upgrade was something I was already counting on anyway.

At the end of the day, its all about the dollar but if I can pull this off for less than 4K, I'd say it would be worth to me as I'll skip the v2 and look towards a used v3 in 5 years or so. Even then, I have family members standing in line for the v1 so the extra effort and dollars spent wouldn't be going to far from home.

This should leave me with the best manual transmission setup GM will ever engineer that will easily go in this car. I would think it would handle anything I ever throw at it....

runsfromdacops

you guys are confusing the t56(pre 09 gm cars) the TR6060(post08 gm cars) and the t56mag.(never came in any factory car)
t56: we all know and love.

TR6060: new wider gears, new 3 cone carbon syncos (leps and bounds better the the old t56). 1 paeice bell housing, has a built in oil pump, has all the same shiftier configs as all the older t56s.

TR6070/TR7060 vett/V3 im about 90% sure that it is just a TR6060 with a extra gear,maybe a slightly longer tail housing to fit the 5/6/7th gear stack.

t56 magnums: aftermarket only, no oil pump, same style bell housing as the early t56s,only has one shifter style (6 bolt direct bolt on), same kick *** guts of the TR6060 minus the oil pump

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

Why did they put the oil pump in the 6060?

DMM

To reduce long term fatigue on the main shaft, specifically 4th gear. And so that a cooler could be incorporated. It's not essential, just something to give the OEM's the warm fuzzy when considering longevity and warranty costs.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

With the larger 6060 internals, wonder if there has been any long term oiling related issues with the magnum???

hefftone

I got mixed up thinking there was an fbody magnum from tremec, but actually its from tick and the like, where they shorten the magnum mainshaft and put on a fbody tail housing. The ssr/GTO shifter could bolt onto that and be close. But that trans is too expensive to start with considering all the other changes.

MWD

The main advantage of the pump is to move oil from the rear to the front during hard acceleration. It has nothing to do with shaft fatigue or 4th gear. It has to do with loss of oil in the front gear cluster. For high hp hard launches like drag racing (or perhaps road race on slicks) it is essential for longevity.

The TR6060 uses a larger diameter shaft to reduce deflection and therefore fatigue (nothing to do with oil). 4th gear isn't really a gear. The input shaft is simply locked to the output shaft, so there is no power transferred through a helical gear mesh needing a constant bath of oil.

Michael

runsfromdacops

^ not true, whil 4th gear is 1 to 1 and is the strongest gear in the tranny it is a gear stack just like any other.

the oil pump is is to help get oil TO the 5/6 stack as it is at the back of the tranny in its own area.

bmylez

iTrader: (3)

And people have been known to shred 5th in our t56 after going on a long trip because that area gets starved, right.

ls1247

iTrader: (2)

6060 it is...

MWD

4th 'gear' is unique in that there are no actual toothed gears meshing with another on a parallel shaft like the other gears. All the toothed gears except for reverse are in constant mesh, so when you engage a gear you are simply locking one of the free spinning gears to the shaft, such that the output shaft and the counter shaft are coupled together through a gear mesh. 1st through 3rd are free spinning on the main shaft (output shaft) in neutral and 5th and 6th are free spinning on the counter shaft or auxiliary shaft. The 4th 'gear' syncro simply locks the input shaft from the clutch directly to the output shaft, so that it is effectively one solid shaft connecting the driveshaft directly to the crankshaft. You could remove the counter shaft completely from the transmission so that there are no gear teeth engaged in the transmission, and still use 4th gear. This is also why dyno runs in 4th gear show more rear wheel hp because the power does not have to transfer through a gear mesh to the counter shaft and back to the output shaft through another gear mesh.

The gear teeth need a constant supply of oil especially under load to keep the oil film from being wiped away. The counter shaft is always spinning and part of the gears on the counter shaft are dipping into the oil. During hard acceleration the oil moves to the back of the transmission so that the front gears 1st, 2nd, 3rd may be out of the oil bath.

The TR6060 pump returns oil to the front of the transmission, not the back near 5th/6th. The hopeful effect is that the gear mesh at the very front between the input shaft and counter shaft along with 3rd, 2nd, 1st will have oil during hard acceleration. A more ideal race solution would be to have a long spray bar squirting oil directly at every gear and bearing, but the stock TR6060 pump probably goes a long way in addressing 95% of the oil starvation issues.

Michael

Sssnake

^^^^Well said.

I read a write up on the 6060 that discussed the oiling improvements and reasons why they were implemented but couldn't easily find it to post. Very good discussion of 4th gear as well. I was completely unaware the 6060 (and I assume the t56) worked this way.

runsfromdacops

yeah i was wrong about the 4th gear it is a lock in deal.