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Sealed Crate Engine Lsx Class

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Old 10-18-2013, 11:41 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Jeremy@RPMTransmissions View Post
You know you're my homie LJ. But Ive gotta add my 2 cents LOL.

1.) I would love the class to be open to all chassis (considering I have a fully built fox body rolling chassis in my garage). But if GM is going to be on board to help this get off the ground it will not happen. And I would hate to see the class dominated by a bunch of fox bodies.

2.) I understand why they want a headliner. I like the idea of retaining a stock interior appearance other than racing seats and rear seat delete.

3.) I agree about the MAF rule. It is kind of splitting hairs.

4.) I agree that the transmission rules should allow any GM transmission.

5.) Also I think the controller should be a GM ECM like their EROD motors. This will keep the cost down vs buying an expensive Holley ECM that you cant even use half of the features with this class anyway. The GM ECM will work perfect and can be locked once the final calibration is loaded to prevent tampering.

6.) I don't think we should allow anything but a stock LS3 intake. If we allow a single plane people will want to carb the motors. And it will affect the power potential of the engines. I want to see what everyone can do with an equal power plant.
Homies Fo Sho!

I'm just debating, as discussions like this are best for the class. By no means am I making this my life's long passion..

With the Holley ECM it can be tuner locked as well and might be a way to pick up a 2nd class sponsor, I'm sure if there was enough interest in it the price of the unit would come down. You could still incorporate the PCM swap to another NMCA unit in the stagging lanes at Random.

I agree No Carbs, this would allow others to make easy AFR changes and give them an upper hand over EFI guys.

As for the headliner I can't say I have ever stuck my head into someone's car and looked to see if it had one, stock appearing dash: Yes, Carpet floor: Yes, 2 seats: Yes, Headliner: Huh?? And how does the headliner rule apply to convertibles and Targa tops?

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Old 10-18-2013, 12:31 PM   #62
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More about maintaining a stock appearance when it comes to stuff like headliners.

Holley system would complicate things, not sealed tune anymore.

If the tune was for leaded gas I'd think a MAF would not be necessary then as the cars would be tuned for speed density (no o2 sensors?). Sound right or am I FOS?
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:40 PM   #63
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If the tune was for leaded gas I'd think a MAF would not be necessary then as the cars would be tuned for speed density (no o2 sensors?). Sound right or am I FOS?
Speed density would be the way to go.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:51 PM   #64
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More about maintaining a stock appearance when it comes to stuff like headliners.

Holley system would complicate things, not sealed tune anymore.

If the tune was for leaded gas I'd think a MAF would not be necessary then as the cars would be tuned for speed density (no o2 sensors?). Sound right or am I FOS?
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Speed density would be the way to go.
I do agree. SD would eliminate two potential sensor failure. But that would also be a part of vehicle maintenance which will be a must with this class.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:06 PM   #65
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I agree stock bodied. But as long as the car meets weight, I don't see why interior is a big deal.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:16 PM   #66
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Pro Stock John- Impala/Caprice.. same thing. haha Ya that's me. I was racing at Indy. My car is hard to miss lol

I've been pushing for this class for a good while, and the chances are looking good. I think if it sticks to the Coyote Stock rules but with GM vehicles and transmissions it will work out great. I think Coyote had 17 cars at Bowilng Green, which is great for a series specific heads up class on it's 2nd year. Even though the heads up class is series specific, if you play your cards right you can use that combination at other events that don't have the LSX crate engine heads up class. If you have a factory LS equipped vehicle you can run EFI rumble at the off events, index race locally, or hell even drive it on the street..

Having a crate engine really limits contingency payout, but... as of this year Coyote was raised up to the $300 per sticker along with the rest of the heads up classes. It will be a heafty pay day for sure if you invest in contingency sponsor suspension and driveline parts.

Keeping it affordable is the key. The more afforable it is, the more participation you will see. How sick would it be to see a 32 car bump spot in a heads up category?
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:25 PM   #67
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I agree with Jeremy and 2ton are saying. I still could bracket race the car also if it was setup like those kinda rules.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:33 PM   #68
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Anyone know how Ford is handling repairs or freshen-ups on the CS engines? It would be nice to have an affordable year end inspection/freshen up plan
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:52 PM   #69
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Anyone know how Ford is handling repairs or freshen-ups on the CS engines? It would be nice to have an affordable year end inspection/freshen up plan
That has been a question in my mind too. It will be important to limit the people who are authorized to rebuild these engines. We will also need to throw hefty consequences out there if caught cheating. It makes for a lot better racing experience if everyone can be friendly and trustworthy while you are off the track.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:06 PM   #70
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That has been a question in my mind too. It will be important to limit the people who are authorized to rebuild these engines. We will also need to throw hefty consequences out there if caught cheating. It makes for a lot better racing experience if everyone can be friendly and trustworthy while you are off the track.
I agree... That's why I like the random ECM swap out. That'll be an investment for CPP, but it will eliminate any foul play. The JPC team swapped to a tuned ECM and took out the weight during the off season in their CS car and went 9.90s. Crazy..

If the class takes off, I am anxious to see the variety of different cars that will be in the class. That's what is nice about it being GM, we can be more creative than just building a Fox body-newer Mustang. With it being a lower HP engine, leaf spring cars/trucks could work very well. (S-10s, Chevy IIs, 2nd Gen Camaros etc)
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:32 PM   #71
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Something for those creating the rules should verify/note is steering. Will rack and pinion steering be allowed on earlier model cars that came with box steering?

Tubular/Aftermarket K-members ok?
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:42 PM   #72
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Something for those creating the rules should verify/note is steering. Will rack and pinion steering be allowed on earlier model cars that came with box steering?

Tubular/Aftermarket K-members ok?
That is a very good point about the steering. I think that should be left alone. I don't see that being a performance benefit other than weight and that is going to be regulated anyway. Aftermarket k members are allowed in CS.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:08 PM   #73
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Well I have reviewed this thread thinking this could be something worth getting into. After reading most of the post I think you guys mean well but really is this what it takes to run in a heads up class on an affordable budget with an expected ET in the mid to low 10s? I mean really?

I pay out 9K for a sealed crate engine and then someone is going to tell me my TH400 will not work, my gear ratio will not work, my stall is too high or too low, my air lid is wrong, the mass air meter is too close to the throttle body and finally my manual rack and pinion steering is not allowed.

I actually have no problem with the engine being sealed since the engine in my car has been in the car since early spring of 2008 and the valve covers have never been off but when I am not running in this sealed crate engine class I will want to use nitrous on the engine and be able to adjust my tune as I do now with HP Tuners. I will want to know what this sealed crate engine can do with a better tune and some race fuel as well. After all we are only talking about 4 races to run in this series correct? The race seasons where I live last a long time.

Please do not get me wrong here I like the idea but I see no incentive to the spend money only to spend more money to meet all the rules discussed. I will continue to read and review the thread and if it becomes a reality and I can spend less than 11K and have access to tune my setup and not have to change my entire car to meet the rules maybe I will make the jump from index racing. Until then I will continue to watch everyone spend money.

N2

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Old 10-18-2013, 09:23 PM   #74
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Well I have reviewed this thread thinking this could be something worth getting into. After reading most of the post I think you guys mean well but really is this what it takes to run in a heads up class on an affordable budget with an expected ET in the mid to low 10’s? I mean really?

I pay out 9K for a sealed crate engine and then someone is going to tell me my TH400 will not work, my 4.11 gear will not work, my stall in my convertor is too high or too low, my air lid is wrong, the mass air meter is too close to the throttle body and finally my manual rack and pinion steering is not allowed.

I actually have no problem with the engine being sealed since the engine in my car has been in the car since early spring of 2008 and the valve covers have never been off but when I am not running in this sealed crate engine class I will want to use nitrous on the engine and be able to adjust my tune as I do now with HP Tuners. I will want to know what this sealed crate engine can do with a better tune and some race fuel. After all we are only talking about 4 races to run in this series correct? The race seasons where I live last a long time.

Please do not get me wrong here I like the idea but I see no incentive to the spend money only to spend more money to meet all the rules discussed. I will continue to read and review the thread and if it becomes a reality and I can spend less than 11K and have access to tune my setup and not have to change my entire car to meet the rules maybe I will make the jump from index racing. Until then I will continue to watch everyone spend money.

N2
Unfortunately there are going to be a lot of people that this class won't appeal to because of the restrictions. If you can't deal with having a restricted combination, then obviously this class isn't for you. If you aren't willing to alter an existing platform then this class isn't for you either.

This class is for people who want to go heads up racing on an even playing field and let their driving skill and car setup skills shine. Also it is for people who have built a few different combinations and want something new.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:38 PM   #75
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I pay out 9K for a sealed crate engine and then someone is going to tell me my TH400 will not work, my gear ratio will not work, my stall is too high or too low, my air lid is wrong, the mass air meter is too close to the throttle body and finally my manual rack and pinion steering is not allowed.
The whole idea of this class would be for you to get the most out of the crate motor within the rules. Once the rules are set. I really doubt that anyone will tell you what gear, stall, etc. they are running.


Quote:
but when I am not running in this sealed crate engine class I will want to use nitrous on the engine and be able to adjust my tune as I do now with HP Tuners.
I don't see why you couldn't have a second computer that you could switch out for other events.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:55 PM   #76
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I was thinking the second ecm thing myself.
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:21 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by N2RACINGLS1's View Post
Well I have reviewed this thread thinking this could be something worth getting into. After reading most of the post I think you guys mean well but really is this what it takes to run in a heads up class on an affordable budget with an expected ET in the mid to low 10s? I mean really?

I pay out 9K for a sealed crate engine and then someone is going to tell me my TH400 will not work, my gear ratio will not work, my stall is too high or too low, my air lid is wrong, the mass air meter is too close to the throttle body and finally my manual rack and pinion steering is not allowed.

I actually have no problem with the engine being sealed since the engine in my car has been in the car since early spring of 2008 and the valve covers have never been off but when I am not running in this sealed crate engine class I will want to use nitrous on the engine and be able to adjust my tune as I do now with HP Tuners. I will want to know what this sealed crate engine can do with a better tune and some race fuel as well. After all we are only talking about 4 races to run in this series correct? The race seasons where I live last a long time.

Please do not get me wrong here I like the idea but I see no incentive to the spend money only to spend more money to meet all the rules discussed. I will continue to read and review the thread and if it becomes a reality and I can spend less than 11K and have access to tune my setup and not have to change my entire car to meet the rules maybe I will make the jump from index racing. Until then I will continue to watch everyone spend money.

N2
If it mirrors coyote stock rules then you will be able to change tunes and spray the car when not competing in the class. You would have to take the bottle out and remove fogger or whatever from the intake tract and completely away from the engine for the class, and may have to go even further than that if the rules say but its doable. I don't see why a th400 could not be allowed, rack an pinion of course will be, the gear ratio will be whatever you want and the stall speed of conveter will be also.

I do see what your saying about not being able to have this or that on the car if you want. But those rules will be there to keep the class equal. We all will have to take some things off on a already built car.

There could be more than 4 races total for this class. If nmca decides to run it with the regular series that makes 6, if also added to lsfest and chevy high performance nationals thats 8. I don't think all 8 would be points races tho.
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:22 AM   #78
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Yea, if they add the class it will more than likely be ran at all 6 or 7 NMCA events like CS is in NMRA. If I were to do this, I would more than likely run 6.50 index or 7.50 index with the car locally, depending on how fast it is. With a tuned ECM etc, it may run 6.50s.

A TH400 would be nice so you can have a clean neutral with a reverse pattern valve body, but a TH350 would probably be quicker, lighter, and less expensive to build. My TH350 holds up fine with 750+hp and 3750lbs. It has over 400 passes on it since ATF went through it in 2011.

Allowing racks on older vehicles could make installation a lot easier.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:20 AM   #79
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I would think a th350 would be the auto Trans of choice. And a 4 speed t56 faceplated, which is what I would like to run!
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:24 AM   #80
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I would think a th350 would be the auto Trans of choice. And a 4 speed t56 faceplated, which is what I would like to run!
I'd go Turbo-Clutch with a killduf lightning rod setup, or a transbraked built 2004R....

Probly have some parts machined for my accessory drive system and run the alternator off the rear pinon like stock cars or a 16 volt system..

Full Aeromotive pump adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator.

^ Noticed the rules would allow me all of these options.
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