pushrod36

Hi, everyone. I am new to this forum, but I wanted to document my swap for the general public.

Here is my car. Purchased March 2009. The previous owner claims that it was restored 13 years ago, and I think that looks about right. The car is currently equiped with a muncie 4 speed and a 1973 pontiac 400 (badly in need of more power).

The engine/mission are out of a 2000 camaro with 90,000 miles. Compression checked out already, so no worries there.

My target completion date is October 1, 2009. I am building a G5 rally car at the same time, so hopefully I will be able to meet the deadline.

rockytopper

Welcome and nice ride by the way.

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

Shame you couldn't find an LS2 motor out of a modern GTO. Would have improved the cool factor while giving you more HP potential.

But an LS1 in that will be kick. I always liked those cars. Nice agressive lines.

Back in the day it was said GTO stood for Gas, Tires and Oil, cause the cars burned all three. Get a nice modern LS motor and OD trans in there and you can drop the G and the O

pushrod36

Pop - I did consider an LS2, but for the power that I wanted to make, and the additional cost, it just didn't make sense to me. The driving force behind this direction with the car (instead of rebuilding the original drivetrain) is that is almost the same price, but I now have the overdrive that you mentioned.


Last night I pulled the old driveline out. It came out without much difficulty except for discovering that I forgot a couple items (clutch linkage, shifter, and starter) as it was coming out. I found that it was easiest to remove the exhaust manifolds to get at the engine mounts. It is deffinitly possible to pull it with them on if you are in a hurry, though.

TIP: When working under the car be sure to wear some kind of breathing protection. I started choking on dust from all of the rusty bolts breaking loose.

Next step is to detail the engine bay while I wait for parts to show up.

I am going to use Edelbrock's adapter plates and LS1 A-body headers. Not the cheapest route, but I enjoy the comfort of parts that were made to work together. Plus I know a guys who's hooking me up at a discount.
I also have a Texas Speed & Performance 228R cam on the way.

71 chevelle

iTrader: (13)

Nice set up you are going to run. If your deal for the edelbrock stuff falls let me know I can get you a great deal as well.

Check out my build and you can see some of the parts I will be using including the Russell fuel system.

blackhawk_02

iTrader: (10)

Looks sweet! Welcome to the forum and can't wait to see the progress!

pushrod36

I got the engine/trans seperated and found that the old flywheel is not in such bad shape. I will send it with my new zoom kevlar clutch to be turned and balanced. I do not see a lot of value in a lightened flywheel for my application, so I am going to save a little money there. I chose the clutch based on my desire to have slightly more capacity than stock in case I want new heads or some squeeze later on.


Good news for the build: a co-worker has HP Tuner and offered to tune the car for me. One of the advantages of working with sophisticated professional gearheads.

blades11b

iTrader: (1)

i wish you the best of luck with the build i got a zoom clutch about a year ago and it fried out in no time.... roughly 2000 miles and i was only pushing 450hp roughly so do some research. after i did i found alot of people didnt have much luck with them

pushrod36

Long time no update, but I have been making progress. I got the new cam in the engine. I used 5/6" brake line to hold the lifters in place instead of the $100 tool. It worked well except for being a little tight on one side. I had to tap it lightly to get it in, and use a vice grips to pull it out. There is no scratching on the brake line, so all is well. I am waiting on a new timing chain before I button it back up.

One interesting thing that I noticed was that the cam has quite a bit of play in the thrust direction before the cog is bolted to the end. I cannot find any mention of shimming it, so I assume it's typical. Can anyone confirm this? I have pictures of it at each end of it's travel below.

This weekend I will do the valve springs, and hopefully mock up the master cylinder for the clutch using the stock GTO clutch pedal. Does anyone know if the ECU can be fixed so that it does not need a signal from the two switchs on the camaro pedal assembly to run properly?

LS1MCSS

iTrader: (18)

If you're using a 99-02 LS1 pcm, you can just leave the wire for the clutch switch unhooked if you don't want any sort of safety switch. It will start fine without it. I don't know if the newer pcm's work that way or not.

pushrod36

I finally recieved the adapter plates from edelbrock. The instructions really suck, but their tech support is great. I guess it works out. I plan on test fitting the engine this weekend to work out the best location fore/aft.

I also found out that the TDC method of changing valve springs is pretty much garbage. It did technically work, but the extra distance that I needed to compress the spring to make up for the small amount of valve travel caused me to bend about half of my rocker studs. Considering the 2-4 weeks of lead time on new ones I really wish I would have bought an air compressor.

pushrod36

I did the first test fit of my engine this past weekend. The alternator is going to interfere with the mounting location on the driver side. It is the edelbrock mounting adapters + F-body accessory locations. Does anyone have any experience with this (see picture below)?

I am, however, very excited that the engine will sit about 7" farther back than stock. Small polar moment of inertia rocks!

68Chevells1

iTrader: (4)

Try turning the frame stand around the other way. The attached pic is the location my 68 Chevelle frame stands came from the factory. I am using the Edelbrock plates with the F-body accessories. Clearance is very tight between the alt. pulley and steering box, but it does fit.

SkylarkLS1

iTrader: (1)

Are you using the original bolt holes on your frame or did you drill new ones. Im in the same process in a 64 skylark and about to test fit it next week but am questioning how its to be mounted. I dont want to drill new ones but then again underneath the frame I only have 2 access point holes to put bolts I really dont want to drill through the entire frame. Im going to use edelbrock plates and headers same as you and tall/narrow frame mounts..awesome detail on the frame, what control arms are you using?

68Chevells1

iTrader: (4)

I am using the original bolt holes that my original 307 was mounted with. I don't know for sure, but I have heard that some Buick-Olds-Pontiac frames may not have the same holes as the Chevelle frames. Thanks for the comment on the frame. I have Global West upper arms with stock lowers.

pushrod36

68Chevells1 - Thanks for the advice on the frame stands. I considered both ways, but it seemed most logical to not have them hanging slightly off of the subframe like you show in your picture. However, if it works then it works, and I am not going to argue.

Also, what oil pan did you use? I set my engine in and it looks like it will clear with the stock F-body pan, but the guy from Edelbrock says no. Yesterday I tried to fit it with the transmission attached to begin fabricating a trans cross member, but it would not go in. The bellhousing was hitting the trans tunnel, and the oilpan was hitting the crossmember. I am guessing that I will need to do some tunnel modifications to fit everything.

Finally, you are correct, the BOP frames have holes that look like they could be for chevy mounts, but they are not actually the same. It is strange to me that they are there at all because of that.

68Chevells1

iTrader: (4)

I know what you mean about the stands looking funny hanging over the frame like that. I just put them back where they were originally after I cleaned everything up.

I have an Autokraft pan in the car now. The fit is good, with alot of clearance around it, but even with the clearance, it is a bit tight dropping in the motor with trans attached. I have read in here about other guys with A-bodies using the stock F-body pan, but I think they must have their engines further back against the firewall. As it sits now, I have maybe 2" between the firewall and pass. head. The further back the motor is, the more tunnel clearance problems there will be.

Tunnel clearance... I started with cutting out the tunnel from the firewall to the end of the trans just to get the motor and trans in the car. The problem I ran into was the front u-joint hitting the tunnel if I went up too high with the back of the trans. With about 1/4" of u-joint to tunnel clearance, my engine/trans sat tilted down almost 6 degrees. I didn't want to have problems with driveline vibrations or my driveshaft rubbing, so I had the entire tunnel changed from the firewall to the rearend. I copied this guys floor exactly: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213271 The motor/trans is now sitting at 2.2 degrees down and the back of the trans has good ground clearance.

I am using the Edelbrock headers and with the initial fit of the motor at 6 degrees, the driver side header had less than 1/8" clearance from the header to the front crossmember. Raising the rear of the trans made a huge difference for header to front crossmember clearance.

pushrod36

After a lot of being lazy, and waiting for an oil pan, more progress is being made. Autokraft oil pan is installed. I am not too impressed with the quality of the welds considering that it is steel (easy to weld), but as long as it doesn't leak I do not care too much. Also, there is a bolt hole in the pan that doesn't line up with any hole on my pan. I assume that the ls2 or ls3 have a hole there.

After installing the pan I crossed my fingers and hoped that transmission tunnel surgery would not be required....WRONG! Yesterday I cut a 'T' into the tunnel. I am going to start with this, but I am prepared to remove the entire tunnel because it will be easier to fabricate a new one rather than try to smooth/repair what is already welded in.

I found a company that produces a mount for the stock clutch master cylinder. It bolts in behind the brake booster. It costs $100. Pretty steep for a piece of steel with a slight bend and a few holes. I am going to use their concept to make my own.

I will post pictures this weekend...stay tuned.

pushrod36

Can't upload pics for some reason (sorry!).

The engine and transmission are in. I need to level things and torque the engine mounts. It appears that I will be able to use the stock transmission crossmember if I make it taller. I make this claim without checking the pinion angle, and with the engine sitting about 4.5 degrees tipped back.

I cut a big 'T' in the transmission tunnel to fit the T56. It fits tightly, but I am happy with the minor modifications. I need to check U-joint clearance as well because, as previously mentioned, this can be an issue.

69gtols2

Nice progress. I have a ls2 with a t56 in my 1969 GTO. I'm a little further along on the install than you and may be able to provide some insight on some of the smaller pieces you will probably need. Let me know.