NightmareTA

iTrader: (20)

Hi all. First off, I'm glad to finally be part of this board. You all seem like a pretty knowledgable group!

Now, not sure if this is a repost, but I have an 86 trans am stripped to a bare shell for paint right now. I decided last minute (big last minute decision haha) to go with an LSx engine and 4th gen trans am dash. I'm pretty mechanically inclined so the engine swap doesn't worry me too much, but how much of a PITA will it be to get the dash to work off the LS engine? Is this just a matter of using all the same parts out of the parts car and putting them together, or is there some magic wiring to get it to work? The car has NO and I mean zip wiring right now because I originally planned on going with a painless harness.

In theory, could I use the entire chassis/engine harness from a 4th gen and make it work with the dash and LS motor? It would be time consuming, but I don't see why it wouldn't work, ie tail lights are similiar, power options are similiar.....anyone with experience in this field?

Thanks in advance!

91ZLS6

iTrader: (2)

If you use the entire harness out ofa donor car, it would all be plug & play for the most part, course some wiring would need to be extended/shortened.

I do hope you have throughly thought about the 4th gen dash swap. Seeing tis near impossible to make it look like it was meant to be there, and just as hard to get everything to function properly.

Trust me, ive been there. Put a '96 dash into my iroc-z, then decided on a '00 dash to look cleaner, tried a-pillars, door panels etc. Nothing i could do to make it look like it wasnt a hack job, and i ended up converting it back to a thirdgen dash.

Biggest waste of time and money. Ive seen 2 people get the dash to look correctly, they either had a bottomless budget, other was a guy who had years of experience fabricating interior components.

A-pillars dont fit properly, dash doesnt have proper mounting source, causes its to rattle, door panels are too short, heat cables arent direct fit, hush panels have to be hacked, 4th gen trans tunnel is wider then a 3rd causeing the console to overhang etc.

Ive been every 4th gen interior route to try to get **** to look correct, within my budget (Buying panels, performing modifications myself)

I know how to work with interior parts, i swapped a LS2 into my iroc-z etc.

To each their own, but i HIGHLY advise against the dash swap.

TPI TERROR

iTrader: (52)

theres plenty of threads on here. i have abuild thread on thirdgen.org.

ghettocruiser has one of the best write ups on there

NightmareTA

iTrader: (20)

Yea I read yours actually for a while on TGO. I'm whitedevilta on there. Love your car by the way too. I'll have to check out ghettocruisers post. Is he on here or TGO??

As far as the dash, I'd really like to try to get it to work. I'm pretty handy and know a lot of people in different trades, so hopefully I can get it to look pretty good. If not, at least I tried. But thanks for the info 91Z. I appreciate all the help/opinions I get.

91ZLS6

iTrader: (2)

Its alot harder to get a thirdgen dash back in, then take it out for a 4th gen haha, i learned that the hardway.

Ive got alot of swap info on TGO, im "SheldonZ28" on there.

NightmareTA

iTrader: (20)

Well I should have just searched TGO rather than sign up here! LOL. One more thing...anyone know if say a 2001 5.3 is physically the same as a 5.7 LS1? As far as sensors and all that mumbo jumbo? I know the manifold is different but as far as it mating to a T56 and the wiring.....any differences?

91ZLS6

iTrader: (2)

Nope, i swapped one into my iroc-z 2 years ago.

1nasty86

iTrader: (63)

well i did a turbo 5.3/4l60e swap with a 97 ta dash.... bought a harness off ebay and just wired it up.... stage_20 helped me on thirdgen.org but figuring out the headlight assembly was a b*tch.... but its installed and everythings working... next are the 4th gen door panels. also if you are using an automatic id swap the 4th gen console if you are going with a 700r4 or the 4l60e i used my stock shifter linkage and had to cut under the console alittle to get the linkage the right length. but if your going with A T5 OR T56.. the 6 speed console should fit just right

02SOMWS6

iTrader: (6)

Been thinking about doing a swap into my 3rd gen. I'm going to start reading to see whats involved. I also have a complete digital dash and harness from a 88 GTA and a SBC 383 so not sure which way to go

shr00m-dew

iTrader: (28)

Having been working on mine for about 4 years and trying many different things, here's some advice:

If you need to get it done quick, it will look bad and hacked.
If you don't have the ability (or can't afford) to make things, it will look bad.
If you can't read wiring schematics or don't want to get Helms manuals for both cars, some things won't work.
If you cut off the main dash bar mounts like a lot of people do and don't modify them to bolt the 4th gen dash bar on, your dash will rattle and squeek.
If you insist on using the 4th gen door panels as a whole, it will look bad and hacked.

Some things I've learned from following a ton of swap threads on TGO:

A lot of people tell you how easy the swap was and how good it looks. When asked about the A-pillars or door panels, they tell you they are just finishing them up and will get pictures later. You either never see them again, or the pictures are from so far away (or at 'good' angles) you can't really tell how good it looks.

The dash is easy. Putting everything in that attaches to it is hard.

The AC box and hot/cold cable are difficult.

It's 300% easier to swap in a dash and new engine all at the same time. Making the dash work with third-gen wiring can be difficult.

Now from my personal experience and methods:

About the only thing that isn't either plug-n-play or swapping a connector with the right wires connected together is the windshield wipers. My wipers are now a standalone harness. Use the entire harness (body & engine).

Keep in mind (one of my oops) that camaro's didn't have pop-up headlights, firebirds did. You may have to add wiring and relays to get your headlights to work.

You can't program the BCM, so you will have to blackout some lights in the dash from stuff that can't swap over. (ABS, BRAKE, etc) If you don't put the passenger aurbag in, you will need to put the right resistor in the passenger side wiring plug, or else blackout the SIR light too.

Use everything you can from the 4th gen to make the swap easier. Don't use it if it's harder to make work then the benefit it adds.

Side note to the above, I thought Gettocruiser's swap of the entire engine bay blower/condensor box didn't fall into easy/worth it catagory. After seeing how hard it is to get custom AC hoses made like I want, it's probably is worth it to get AC working quickly.

Make sure the gap on both sides of the dash are equal.

For the door panels, just make some using parts from both. I managed to get a modified 4th gen panel to look decent, but not factory. A lot of people used my method to do theirs, so it must look pretty good in pictures. I should start work on the custom one's later this year:



For the a-pillars, make some out of pieces from the 3rd gen and 4th gen. Mine are wrapped in vinyl, but you can texture paint it easier:







For the kick-panels/sill plates, use the 4th gen ones with cut off 3rd gen lowers. You will need to add 4th gen seals to pull this off, but it finishes everything out to a factory look. Also fits right into the bottom of the 4th gen a-pillars pieces and covers the (hopefully) even gaps on each side:




4th gen console's are a little bit wider and overhang, but if you pad the carpet it will fit perfect:




Feel free the check out my build site:

http://www.ms-fbodies.com/jade_ta.htm

Tons of pictures and more helpful tips.

Good luck!

Kevin D.

TPI TERROR

iTrader: (52)

hey kevin any updates on your car?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (17)

I was hoping kevin would post up...His interior swap is great. Also...stage20 made his look REALLY nice also.

FYI...my HVAC swap didnt involve anything more than fitting the stock 4th gen evap core into the stock thirdgen location. Everything else fell into place, and works 100% like it normally would in a 4th gen...especially after I added in the heater control valve. It was my first time working with fiberglass, and it was pretty easy. No custom hoses, no custom components, no custom wiring. ONE wire from the thirdgen controls triggers the whole system, PCM does the rest.

IF I were swapping in a 4th gen dash at the time, I probably would have cut the firewall and fitted the 4th gen HVAC assembly into the car. I would also have used the ENTIRE 4th gen harness like mentioned above. Keep it as plug and play as possible. Factory GM connections are probably better than most people can manage, and you dont want to have to pull it apart chasing gremlins.

There is some awesome advice in this thread.... kevin that post you put together is awesome. It really should be a sticky, or atleast posted in its entirety over on TGO...it might help keep some of the repeat questions down.
J.

shr00m-dew

iTrader: (28)

The only thing not listed on the website is my saga in trying to get a 1987 era bolt-in 12 bolt to fit with LT1 brakes and a 3" driveshaft.

Other then that, I just finally sent off all the paperwork to get a replacement VIN put on, then off to the highway patrol to get the salvage title removed. I think once I can legally drive it all the time I'll get back to it full time.

Kevin D.