conversion reliability
05-02-2011, 08:12 AM
#1
conversion reliability I have a question about how reliable people’s conversions are. I have a 1970 vehicle that I installed a new LS2 crate motor and new trans. Had to do a lot of custom work, like motor/trans mounts, radiator, electric fuel pump, electrical, etc. I also rebuilt the entire suspension adding coilovers, upgraded rear end and half shafts, all new bearings everywhere and replaced the entire brake system, lines, booster and all. With all that I replaced you would think the car would be as reliable as a new one.
Well in the three years it has been done I probably have less than 3K miles on it. When I first got it done I had the fuel pump lock up on some tank debris just a couple of miles from home. Like a dumbass I had zero tools, so $100 tow home. I knew I hadn’t cleaned out the tank properly, so just figured I had it coming. Pulled the tank and had it professionally cleaned and resealed and bought a new fuel pump and improved filters. No problems since then. I learned to never go anywhere without a full tool box.
This year I was starting to drive it more, couple of 200+ mile round trips. I was starting to gain some confidence in the car when the alternator bracket I custom made let loose on the Baltimore beltway. Managed to coast off the freeway into a not so bad part of Baltimore. Since I didn’t have a welder in the tool box I had to wedge a block of wood next to the alternator to get the belt to stay on. Luckily the belt got hooked under the motor instead of thrown. Lost about half fluid in the radiator, but the car ran and stayed cool while moving so tried to crawl home.
Tried to limp home on surface streets and got lost in a not so good part of Baltimore. Sweating bullets and reestablishing a direct conversation with God, not to mention getting directions from what looked like a crack dealer working a corner, I managed to get to a freeway on ramp when the bracket let loose completely stranding me again. Funny how I felt safer facing 80 mph traffic instead of being dead on a surface street near Ravens stadium. Anyway a $250 tow and numerous jokes from the wife later I was safe at home.
So how about it, how many of you guys would feel safe taking your creations on a 1000 mile road trip tomorrow? Any regrets on making things like custom brackets or one off parts?
Well in the three years it has been done I probably have less than 3K miles on it. When I first got it done I had the fuel pump lock up on some tank debris just a couple of miles from home. Like a dumbass I had zero tools, so $100 tow home. I knew I hadn’t cleaned out the tank properly, so just figured I had it coming. Pulled the tank and had it professionally cleaned and resealed and bought a new fuel pump and improved filters. No problems since then. I learned to never go anywhere without a full tool box.
This year I was starting to drive it more, couple of 200+ mile round trips. I was starting to gain some confidence in the car when the alternator bracket I custom made let loose on the Baltimore beltway. Managed to coast off the freeway into a not so bad part of Baltimore. Since I didn’t have a welder in the tool box I had to wedge a block of wood next to the alternator to get the belt to stay on. Luckily the belt got hooked under the motor instead of thrown. Lost about half fluid in the radiator, but the car ran and stayed cool while moving so tried to crawl home.
Tried to limp home on surface streets and got lost in a not so good part of Baltimore. Sweating bullets and reestablishing a direct conversation with God, not to mention getting directions from what looked like a crack dealer working a corner, I managed to get to a freeway on ramp when the bracket let loose completely stranding me again. Funny how I felt safer facing 80 mph traffic instead of being dead on a surface street near Ravens stadium. Anyway a $250 tow and numerous jokes from the wife later I was safe at home.
So how about it, how many of you guys would feel safe taking your creations on a 1000 mile road trip tomorrow? Any regrets on making things like custom brackets or one off parts?
Last edited by Pop N Wood; 05-02-2011 at 09:06 AM.
05-02-2011, 08:28 AM
#3
Good question and great post. I've got a couple years on my 68 corvette 6.0 conversion and it has yet to leave me stranded. In fact, I'm just finishing a 72 Olds 442 with a 5.3 as a daily driver. So I guess my confidence in the conversions is pretty high now.
I think your point on completely rebuilding the driveline, suspension, steering, and I'll add electrical is really important to reliability. No point in having a great running engine when everything else is falling apart.
I'm also a little concerned about the "custom" elements like external fuel pump, home made accessory brackets, induction, etc... on my corvette, so on the 72 I tried to use as much OEM stuff as possible. Any time you're you're fabbing up parts, you're going to have failures. No way around that fact.
I think your point on completely rebuilding the driveline, suspension, steering, and I'll add electrical is really important to reliability. No point in having a great running engine when everything else is falling apart.
I'm also a little concerned about the "custom" elements like external fuel pump, home made accessory brackets, induction, etc... on my corvette, so on the 72 I tried to use as much OEM stuff as possible. Any time you're you're fabbing up parts, you're going to have failures. No way around that fact.
05-02-2011, 10:14 AM
#4
Have yet to really put any miles on my chevelle 6.0 yet but the wife said its gotta be on the road for a solid month before I can take it to LSFest. Round tripping it from KCMO.
05-02-2011, 10:22 AM
#5
My swap has been done since late 05' and has only given me one problem, which has been resolved (fuel pump, bulk head wiring for the intank pump). Other than that, I have driven it all over the place anytime and weather. done a 1000 mile drive and cruz for Hot August Night every year. Maybe 3000-4000 miles every year.?
Car is yet to be tuned, so, maybe i'll get it done this year and see about getting my MPG up. (currently 23+ with 4.11's).
Car is yet to be tuned, so, maybe i'll get it done this year and see about getting my MPG up. (currently 23+ with 4.11's).
05-02-2011, 10:38 AM
#6
I would take off in dads today and drive it anywhere. Last year on power tour we had a brake line issue but a hammer is all I needed to get it back on the road. Drove a hour to a parts store and swap it out.
I don't get too woried about when ever I have got stuck some way I have always met someone who rolls out the carpet and get me going again.
Dad got woried but I have done drag week and just driving it cuts down on the stress.
Tim
I don't get too woried about when ever I have got stuck some way I have always met someone who rolls out the carpet and get me going again.
Dad got woried but I have done drag week and just driving it cuts down on the stress.
Tim
05-02-2011, 11:23 AM
#7
This is why I laugh to myself when I see those guys at Barrett-Jackson talking up how a heavily customized car only has a few miles on it when it gets sold there. My experience has been that it takes some time and miles to get a car really straightened out.
The Camaro that my Dad and I built has let us down one time, but fortunately, it didn't involve a tow truck. When we first finished the car, the first thing we did was take it on a 5k mile road trip. I was confident enough to not bring any tools with us, and this was justified for the first 12 states and 4k miles or so. At the parting lot of the Atlantis Hotel and Casino in Reno, our alternator gave up on us; thanks for the great rebuild ACDelco. Fortunately, it's just a 4th gen F body alt, so I was able to borrow some tools and catch a ride from StuCool in his LS1 Studebaker. After about 5-10 minutes of wrenching in the parking lot, a was well.
The other major issue we've had is a leaking radiator, but that seems to be fixed now, also. The power steering has fought me the whole way, too, but that was never a true failure, as much is was a calibration issue. Things like the alternator are why I tried to use as much off the shelf GM stuff as I could. Having to get a new radiator custom built cost us a few weeks of down time, but hopefully, that will no longer be an issue. To me, the ease of replacement is the best part of using GM stuff instead of aftermarket. I could walk into just about any autoparts store and by that alternator, but if it had been a chrome "one-wire" aftermarket one, who knows how long we would have been stuck.
As of today the car has close to 15.5k on it since July 08. I wouldn't be at all afraid to jump in it today and drive a 1000 miles. Heck, a few weeks ago we drove to San Diego and back, which involves a pretty good climb up the mountain along with 100* temps in the desert. The car didn't miss a beat with the A/C blasting and cruising at about 80. By the end of this summer with the trips we've got planned it should hit 20k.
The Camaro that my Dad and I built has let us down one time, but fortunately, it didn't involve a tow truck. When we first finished the car, the first thing we did was take it on a 5k mile road trip. I was confident enough to not bring any tools with us, and this was justified for the first 12 states and 4k miles or so. At the parting lot of the Atlantis Hotel and Casino in Reno, our alternator gave up on us; thanks for the great rebuild ACDelco. Fortunately, it's just a 4th gen F body alt, so I was able to borrow some tools and catch a ride from StuCool in his LS1 Studebaker. After about 5-10 minutes of wrenching in the parking lot, a was well.
The other major issue we've had is a leaking radiator, but that seems to be fixed now, also. The power steering has fought me the whole way, too, but that was never a true failure, as much is was a calibration issue. Things like the alternator are why I tried to use as much off the shelf GM stuff as I could. Having to get a new radiator custom built cost us a few weeks of down time, but hopefully, that will no longer be an issue. To me, the ease of replacement is the best part of using GM stuff instead of aftermarket. I could walk into just about any autoparts store and by that alternator, but if it had been a chrome "one-wire" aftermarket one, who knows how long we would have been stuck.
As of today the car has close to 15.5k on it since July 08. I wouldn't be at all afraid to jump in it today and drive a 1000 miles. Heck, a few weeks ago we drove to San Diego and back, which involves a pretty good climb up the mountain along with 100* temps in the desert. The car didn't miss a beat with the A/C blasting and cruising at about 80. By the end of this summer with the trips we've got planned it should hit 20k.
Trending Topics
05-02-2011, 11:25 AM
#8
TECH Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sparta, Mo. in southwest Missouri
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I have two '34 Ford street rods that I have owned and driven for years. They both have had various engine and trans combinations and both have many store bought and home fabricated pieces. Each has been driven over 30,000 miles on trips and to national shows in many different states. One has NEVER let me down...the other has had a couple of problems with electrical components. So far I've been luckier than you and managed to limp to parts stores all but one time and that time I was close enough to home to get wife to come get me. I did still have to endure the jokes though 
Now, I'm getting ready to start over with the one that NEVER let me down with all new running gear...LS2, 200-4R, 9" Ford rear, all new alt. & A/C and many different fabricated parts. It's all FUN though.....RIGHT??
Ron
Now, I'm getting ready to start over with the one that NEVER let me down with all new running gear...LS2, 200-4R, 9" Ford rear, all new alt. & A/C and many different fabricated parts. It's all FUN though.....RIGHT?? Ron
05-02-2011, 11:56 AM
#9
Have about 6K plus on my swap. Hot Rod Power Tour was a 2400 mile trip, zero issues. Have not had one single issue to date. There are only a few things not GM on my car like the headers and gas tank oh, and fuel rails. The only special bracket I have is a power steering delete I made, because I wanted more belt wrap on the water pump pulley. I used a stock idler pulley and a piece of stainless pipe.....
I try to stay away from most aftermarket parts where possible, like pulleys, tensioners etc, to deviate from the way GM designed the drivetrain....My wagon will get a GM fuel tank, adapted with a F-body fuel bucket, and most of the same things used on my first swap......
T,
I try to stay away from most aftermarket parts where possible, like pulleys, tensioners etc, to deviate from the way GM designed the drivetrain....My wagon will get a GM fuel tank, adapted with a F-body fuel bucket, and most of the same things used on my first swap......
T,
05-02-2011, 01:44 PM
#11
I think that anything you modify from stock, you really have to scrutinize the design and try to foresee potential failure and pitfalls. I have always tended to over-engineer everything. I also tend to use OEM, or OEM style modifications because they are proven. Even after all that, I think there is a vetting period to make sure what you thought was right is right. The only thing that I will be stressing about on my new build is the fuel pump. At the slightest hint of a problem, I will go to an OEM style in-tank setup.
05-02-2011, 07:05 PM
#12
I've built enough cars that reliability concerns aren't at the forefront of my thoughts any longer. That confidence comes with time, experience and attention to detail. I also have a test pattern each build goes through before I really lean on them and get very far from the house. Finally, I try to put around 250 or more miles on them before I take it anywhere far away or with heavy traffic. From an issues standpoint, my Thunderbird was my all weather daily until it was unnecessarily wrecked and I had 15K on the swap at that point. I now have some intermittent wiring issues after the wreck (several wires were cut in the accident) but now that it's warm and the days are long, I'm stripping the car to fix all the damage properly.
Like the guy with the alternator failure, I know the value of not modifying consumable parts. I also try my best to build my projects with commonly available parts so I'm not stuck with the "we'll have to order one in..." line. Sometimes it's tempting and other times (Gary's 68 Corvette) it's necessary but if at all possible I stay away from it.
Like the guy with the alternator failure, I know the value of not modifying consumable parts. I also try my best to build my projects with commonly available parts so I'm not stuck with the "we'll have to order one in..." line. Sometimes it's tempting and other times (Gary's 68 Corvette) it's necessary but if at all possible I stay away from it.
05-02-2011, 09:18 PM
#13
TECH Enthusiast
My 67 Chevelle build was my first build with an LS powerplant .I took the car on the 2010 Hotrod Power tour last year with only 400 miles on the car before the trip ( 3500 miles) .I did not have any major issues at all with the car . As with others I tried to use stock parts so they could be easily replaceable on the road.With any custom or aftermarket parts I bought spares or have a way to differently repair it( my custom ac bracket will still allow the stock belt without ac to be used ).
I tried to use new parts and reliable vendors so I could easily remedy a problem. Time was also not an issue ,I could research parts or info without having to make a decision hastily.
Most importantly, the members and the info on this site are my best tools and my car could have not been completed without them .JOHN
Oh yeah , going on the 2011 HRPT
I tried to use new parts and reliable vendors so I could easily remedy a problem. Time was also not an issue ,I could research parts or info without having to make a decision hastily.
Most importantly, the members and the info on this site are my best tools and my car could have not been completed without them .JOHN
Oh yeah , going on the 2011 HRPT
05-03-2011, 12:24 AM
#14
Complete reliability is a requirement of mine. I would not hesitate to jump in and drive cross country right now.
I have 80k on the swap and the only time that I can think of that it let me down was when I was coming home from work one night in torrential rains and I decided to power slide through a puddle......it got a bit deeper than expected (like a foot) and my cold air intake sucked some water in hydrolocked the motor and spit a rod through the block. I have since redesigned the air intake, but my car is my daily driver and gets beat on regularly. I have at least 200 passes on it at the strip.
I`m planning on going to the dragstrip this saturday, its a 2 and 1/2 hr drive each way and the previous two times I have gone I put over 40 passes on each time (yep thats 10+ miles at WOT
). I will have a tool box in the car, but no trailer.
I try to use as many GM parts as possible but I`m not against fabing stuff. Just need to make sure you overbuild it.
I have 80k on the swap and the only time that I can think of that it let me down was when I was coming home from work one night in torrential rains and I decided to power slide through a puddle......it got a bit deeper than expected (like a foot) and my cold air intake sucked some water in hydrolocked the motor and spit a rod through the block. I have since redesigned the air intake, but my car is my daily driver and gets beat on regularly. I have at least 200 passes on it at the strip.
I`m planning on going to the dragstrip this saturday, its a 2 and 1/2 hr drive each way and the previous two times I have gone I put over 40 passes on each time (yep thats 10+ miles at WOT
). I will have a tool box in the car, but no trailer. I try to use as many GM parts as possible but I`m not against fabing stuff. Just need to make sure you overbuild it.
05-03-2011, 07:49 AM
#15
Experience.. doesn't always help!
I've been building hotrods for over 50 yrs, and always manage to find a gremlin or 2....
My 55/LQ9 ride is about as "done" as it's going to get. I have been finding myself trying to cover every possible, "what if" scenario...Finally have come to the conclusion...SCREW IT! Drive it. If it breaks, Murphy is involved. A tow truck is always an option...
I remember when the testosterone was high, we drove from Chitown to LA in a hopped up 55 Chevy.[ORIGINAL RT 66!!]. On the return, we lost a cyl about 300 mi out of LA..SCREW IT! Pulled the plug wire, bought a few gallons of re-refined oil, and kept bookin it. about 1800 mi later..HOME!
I have a bag of hand tools, a credit card, and an ins policy that covers towing...About as good as it gets!
I've been building hotrods for over 50 yrs, and always manage to find a gremlin or 2....
My 55/LQ9 ride is about as "done" as it's going to get. I have been finding myself trying to cover every possible, "what if" scenario...Finally have come to the conclusion...SCREW IT! Drive it. If it breaks, Murphy is involved. A tow truck is always an option...
I remember when the testosterone was high, we drove from Chitown to LA in a hopped up 55 Chevy.[ORIGINAL RT 66!!]. On the return, we lost a cyl about 300 mi out of LA..SCREW IT! Pulled the plug wire, bought a few gallons of re-refined oil, and kept bookin it. about 1800 mi later..HOME!
I have a bag of hand tools, a credit card, and an ins policy that covers towing...About as good as it gets!
05-03-2011, 10:06 AM
#17
I have a ton of custom stuff on mine and a 600rwhp turbo setup. I wouldnt hesitate to hop in it today and drive it accross the country. Every car has minor problems and thats part of the car guy lifestyle (every real car guy has made some Macgyver repairs to their hot rod on the side of the road to get home)
05-03-2011, 10:53 AM
#18
I wouldn't hesitate to hop in any of mine and drive 1000 miles at the drop of a hat. My Nova swap has been done for 10 years, and the swap has about 130,000 on it. It's been on countless road trips, Power Tours, ect. It's been as far as Key West Florida. My wagon the "Truckster" has been on 3 long haul Power Tours, and a family vacation to South Dakota, and Wyoming. And the '33, well, I drive the hell out of that one. Last year I took it to Canada, then to New York and back.
I build them with the intention of driving them across country, and overkill alot of things. I try to use as many OEM parts as possible so that if I do have a problem, I can get parts at a local auto parts store. And I try my best to engineer them from a mechanic's point of view, meaning I try to make them easy to work on, and not a designer's point of view where they're only concerned with how cheap it can be made and how fast it will go together on the assembly line. Most of my cars have intank fuel pumps with access doors above the sender so dropping the tank isn't necessary to change a pump. I sometimes carry a spare pump with me, and in my '33, I can change it start to finish in about 20 minutes.
I build them with the intention of driving them across country, and overkill alot of things. I try to use as many OEM parts as possible so that if I do have a problem, I can get parts at a local auto parts store. And I try my best to engineer them from a mechanic's point of view, meaning I try to make them easy to work on, and not a designer's point of view where they're only concerned with how cheap it can be made and how fast it will go together on the assembly line. Most of my cars have intank fuel pumps with access doors above the sender so dropping the tank isn't necessary to change a pump. I sometimes carry a spare pump with me, and in my '33, I can change it start to finish in about 20 minutes.
05-03-2011, 10:06 PM
#20
I've had five LS swaps. 79 Camaro, 98 Wrangler, 99 Wrangler,67 Nova and "new" 73 Camaro.
The LS6 in the Jeep starts at the turn of the key at -30. I use it for plowing snow in the winter.
The 79 Camaro was trouble free. LS1/4L60E. Drove it for 4 years.
I've made it a point to use Fbody accessories on all of them to keep the parts the same. From the swaps I have a used spare water pump, alternator, PS pump. Don't take them with me. Just sit on the shelf.
I did break a throttle cable on the jeep. Now I carry a spare cable and cable stop.
Been great reliable swaps.
The LS6 in the Jeep starts at the turn of the key at -30. I use it for plowing snow in the winter.
The 79 Camaro was trouble free. LS1/4L60E. Drove it for 4 years.
I've made it a point to use Fbody accessories on all of them to keep the parts the same. From the swaps I have a used spare water pump, alternator, PS pump. Don't take them with me. Just sit on the shelf.
I did break a throttle cable on the jeep. Now I carry a spare cable and cable stop.
Been great reliable swaps.