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Hey guys thanks for all the concern, very touching! Life has been crazy between raising our 1yo son and buying a new house (AND SHOP)!! But FEAR NOT, the Nova is up for the summer and looking and running better than ever! Now for pictures:
The finished air intake. I’ll add a filter divider this winter to help avoid sucking warm engine air.
I turned a pair of pawn shop vice grips into a tubing beader. Crimping this heavy wall tubing was hand breaking but it came out very nice and cost me $7.
The finished “brain box” under the dash board. All external connection have sealed connectors so I can unplug and remove the whole kit-n-kaboddle. I still need to make a new glove box compartment. See the OBD port above the fuse panel.
Retrofitting the stock tank with the in-tank the Walbro 450 E-85 pump was far more work than I anticipated. The original tank was in great shape. I had planned to make a small 4” dia hole, but when I cut into the tank it turns out there is “splash guard bucket” around the tank vent. So I had to enlarge my access hole. I also used the chance to POR the tank while it was out.
And here is the biggest surprise; the Nova’s new home! We bought our first house. It is a great place, in a great area on ˝ acre and a 40’X25’ shop with high ceiling! I’m a real boy now!
Along with the new EFI system I finally got my C5 shoes on. It took quite a bit of work, but the first time I stepped back and took in the new look it was 110% worth it!
-1.5” hubcentric spacers in the rear
-5mm spacer on the rear left to make up for the off-center axle
-Rear inner fender massaging with a 3lb sledge
-1” hubcentric spacers in the front
-Reposition front left soft brake line to clear wheel
-Shave the front hub lug nuts to clear wheels
-Cut, bend and re-weld the front steering arms to clear wheels
-Shorten inner tie rods to accommodate new steering arm lengths
Got the new EFI swap on the rollers! The same dyno I ran on when carb’d. +13hp and +2lbft. But she is making less hp and tq from 3100-4900rpm. So I have some tuning left to do. Dyno sheet and vid for your enjoyment:
Okay I read your latest posts, see the shop, and thought about how my Nova is still sitting in the garage yet to run after five years of dicking around.... now I just want to cry. You suck and congratulations.
Okay I read your latest posts, see the shop, and thought about how my Nova is still sitting in the garage yet to run after five years of dicking around.... now I just want to cry. You suck and congratulations.
Oh com’n now Bandit, don’t be a drama queen, you can’t give up now you are so close! What, maybe another month? Also remember that I hammered the Nova together and now I’m making improvements as time and budget allow. You’re Nova is going to be 1 sexy beast right outta the box! Now I’ve gotta be the little devil on thread ribbing you for updates and progress pics!!
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not quitting any time soon - I'm finally making progress again. I just find it amusing how many swap projects have started and completed in the time since I started.
I really dig the new wheels, but I'm curious how your steering modifications are playing out. How much did you shorten the arms and in what direction? Messing around with the steering arm geometry affects Ackermann.
Are you running stock C5 'vette tire sizes? 245/45R17 and 275/40R18?
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not quitting any time soon - I'm finally making progress again. I just find it amusing how many swap projects have started and completed in the time since I started.
I really dig the new wheels, but I'm curious how your steering modifications are playing out. How much did you shorten the arms and in what direction? Messing around with the steering arm geometry affects Ackermann.
Are you running stock C5 'vette tire sizes? 245/45R17 and 275/40R18?
Thanks I love the look too! Yes, they are stock size rubbers 245/45R17 front and 275/40R18 rear. The stock Nova steering arms did not work with the wide front wheels. I was intending to use a set of Chevelle steering arms because they place the tie rod end higher and closer to the center of the wheel axis, but they interfered with the calipers. What I ended up doing was making a “Pie cut” in the stock arms, bending the tie end inward and rewelding. I also had to shorten the Moog outer tie rods ~1.5” to accommodate the new tie rod end location. This all works, but I am experiencing some issues:
1. The car follows tire grooves and imperfections in the road much more
2. To change lanes on the freeway you have to oversteer to pull out of the tire groove, then the car will shoot into the other lane and you have to quickly over-correct
3. Some darting related to bumpsteer
4. Increased road noise and vibration both thru the chassis and the wheel
I know the steering arm changes are part of the cause, but I also believe stepping up to the modern 245s from the worn out 14” 165s is partially to blame. I also am using a faster ratio Grand Cherokee steering box, which is a major improvement over manual! But the faster ratio magnifies the “darty” feel and steering feedback. I’ve driven it several hundred miles now and it is safe, just not enjoyable as it could be. Over the winter I am going to invest time in improving the steering feel.
Also that is a lot of meat to fit into a car this low! At full lock one front tire is nearly touching the inner fender and the other is rubbing on the subframe. In the rear the 275s rub on both the inner and outer fenders. The tight fit is made worse by the fact that the rear axle is off center to the right almost ˝” and the old stock leaf springs and bushing are totally sacked out and allow side-to-side play that could be measured with a yard stick! New leafs and poly bushing are happening this winter. Along with trimming the outer fender lips and some surgical grade hammer work on the inner fenders.
One of the things about moving the steering rod endpoints inward is that you increase the amount of Ackermann, meaning as you turn, the tires will splay out (toe wise) because the inside tire is turning faster than the outside tire. I would be interested to know how much you altered this with your tweaks - 1.5" of movement seems like an awful lot on such a short steering arm. You might be able to compensate by adding a little static toe in, but overall I think you're messing with some geometry you shouldn't. I also question the safety of welded stock steering arms.
I'm thinking you might want to invest in some wheel spacers and maybe a higher ride height on the front. I'm doing some brute force research into the 275 front tire w/ 17's path right now on my Nova and I'm working with C6 replicas. I currently have 2.5" hub adapters on but am about to put 2" to see if I can get a lower ride height without outer fender well rub.
The main concern I have with all my measurements and test fitting is the tie rod ends just slightly rubbing the edge of the wheel lip. Nothing else is touching except possibly the sway bar on one side at a forced full lock. I'm also running a third gen quick ratio box. I'm looking to space the steering arms off the spindle about 1/8"-1/4" with washers and possibly run the long pitman arm as well to see where this lands me. I've also been looking into a couple circle track adjustable centerlinks to see if I can adjust bump steer from the other end of the tie rod.
Mostly I'm just trying to beat the system and avoid spending a bunch of money on a whole subframe.
I'm thinking you might want to invest in some wheel spacers and maybe a higher ride height on the front. I'm doing some brute force research into the 275 front tire w/ 17's path right now on my Nova and I'm working with C6 replicas. I currently have 2.5" hub adapters on but am about to put 2" to see if I can get a lower ride height without outer fender well rub.
The main concern I have with all my measurements and test fitting is the tie rod ends just slightly rubbing the edge of the wheel lip. Nothing else is touching except possibly the sway bar on one side at a forced full lock. I'm also running a third gen quick ratio box. I'm looking to space the steering arms off the spindle about 1/8"-1/4" with washers and possibly run the long pitman arm as well to see where this lands me. I've also been looking into a couple circle track adjustable centerlinks to see if I can adjust bump steer from the other end of the tie rod.
Mostly I'm just trying to beat the system and avoid spending a bunch of money on a whole subframe.
Yup. I have 1.0” spacers up front and 1.5” spacers out back, with an additional 8mm spacer on the Left to account for the axle off-center issue. 1.0” up front is all I can fit without putting the tire into the fender. I have considered raising the car, but I love the stance. But I’ll keep raising ride height as a last resort.
I considered spacing the steering arms in with spacers as well. But I would have needed ~1/2” of washers to clear the 245s.
Interesting idea to play with the centerlink length and placement. I am in the same boat. I can’t spend big $ on an aftermarket system. Good luck!
Agree with the Professor above. Changing steering arm geometry without diagramming/calculating is bad news. Edit: I don't see how you can't go further out. A 1.5" spacer effectively puts the outside of your front rim equal to that of mine.
I've actually had trouble rubbing on the frame at the autocross, so I plan to install 1/8" larger spacers to combat this and finally have my camber dialed in to bring the top of the wheel inward.
Agree with the Professor above. Changing steering arm geometry without diagramming/calculating is bad news. Edit: I don't see how you can't go further out. A 1.5" spacer effectively puts the outside of your front rim equal to that of mine.
I've actually had trouble rubbing on the frame at the autocross, so I plan to install 1/8" larger spacers to combat this and finally have my camber dialed in to bring the top of the wheel inward.
Well damn! I want your wheel wells! Haha. Ya I am totally stuffed with 1” wheel spacers in the front. I tried the 1.5” spacers in front but the tire was in contact with the outer lip of the inner fender well! Also keep in mind my car is LOW. like I have lift up on the front bumper to slide my lo-profile jack under the cross member LOW. And the mufflers singe the grass when I park in the yard LOW. It looks great, but is the root of some headaches. I will try to get some pictures up of the height and tire clearances.
Since you are all here let’s take a poll: what is your fender arch to ground measurements? Front and rears? I’m curious to see how my Nova compares to everyone. Pics FTW! Thanks
23 3/4” from fender arch to ground both front and rear and 4 1/4” under the front crossmember!
How does everyone else measure up?
Front wheel tuck under the fender a bit. The second picture is wheel clearance with the wheels straight, then with the wheel near full lock.
Straight Clearance:
Turn Clearance:
This is the stock steering arm with the 17” C5 wheel and 1”spacer. The steering arm itself clears, but the tie rod hits the wheel. I tried a set of Chevelle steering arms, but they interfered with the caliper thru bolt (chrome allen bolt). Even if I would have used spacers to move the Chevelle arms inward to relieve the interference, I would not have been able to remove the caliper bolt to change brake pads without pulling the steering arm off!
This is the re-worked steering arms and tie rod clearance.
Right now I'm at about 25-1/2 to fender arch. Once I put the 2" spacers on I'm going to try to drop it down an inch to 24-1/2" so the arch just covers the top of the tire tread shoulder.
I haven't been on this site in awhile, nice shop you got! Good to see the Nova is ready for some fun this summer. The only upgrades on my car this summer is a bigger fuel pump so I will be raising the boost on the turbo and I might do a cam swap if I find any free time
On my Nova, the lip is 22 9/16" at the rear and 23 1/2" at the front. only a bit of rubbing on the Front Left.. as that inter-fender well is a bit out of shape.
06-10-2015, 10:47 AM
