Go Back   LS1TECH > LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-LS7 PERFORMANCE > Conversions & Hybrids
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register iTraderTimeslips Photos Members Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Used CarsVendor Directory
Search

Conversions & Hybrids
LSX Engines in Non-LSX Vehicles
Sponsored by
Don Hardy Race Cars

Welcome to LS1Tech.com!
Welcome to LS1Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join LS1Tech.com today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-11-2011, 11:23 PM   #1
Staging Lane
2003 Subaru Impreza
My Garage
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 53
Default Paddle Shifter Options?

I'm getting to work on my LS2 S14 and kind of stopped today and remembered a few people on here mentioning a couple companies that had been working on paddle shifting setups for the 6l80's, so I had a couple questions. I want something slightly novel and absolutely love paddle shifting.

First what companies are offering these type of setups that are quality? Can they be built to handle 400-600 whp reliably?

How fast are these to shift? I've been in several earlier model v10 M5's and m3's with SMG's (before the super fast shifting newer models) and while the shifting wasn't amazing it was definitely tolerable, especially considering the convenience of an auto. I don't want to go this route if they are completely unrefined.

Also from what I understand they are relatively expensive, what is a ballpark figure of what the setup components would run?

Thanks for any help in advance.
beatmeofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 10:04 AM   #2
TECH Senior Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Tainted's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 9
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FaBuLoUs HELL
Posts: 8,425
Default

I havent seen any yet. However a manual valve body 6sp with paddles does sound pretty cool
__________________

support marriage equality
Tainted is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 11:33 AM   #3
TECH Regular
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 416
Default

Yep, the 6L trans is already set up for paddle shifting. Just look at a C6 Corvette, a PontG8, or a CTS V. For a hybrid conversion, just call John Spears at Speartech. He makes a module that will take switch inputs and convert it into a signal that will talk to the trans computer. He built one for my 67 Chevelle wagon, and it works beautifully! The trans computer will need to be properly programed to accept the inputs, but John can do this as well. You just need to pull the computer valve body out of the pan and send it in to him. If you have a local tuner that is knowledgeable, it can be done through the OBDII port on the ECM.

Mine works very well and shifts very quickly.

The big downside of the 6L trans in conversions, is that the trans is HUGE! I ended up cutting away all the original tunnel on my Chevelle and fabricating an entire new tunnel.
Also, the 6L trans will only work with late model ECM's that use CAN. If you are using an earlier engine, the TCI trans is about you only option, and it is over $5K. It uses a 4L80 case as its basis, so it is quite a bit smaller. It uses its own stand-alone TCM and is is setup for manual sequential *****, up and down.


Regards, John McGraw
John McGraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 07:41 PM   #4
Teching In
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 20
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John McGraw View Post
Yep, the 6L trans is already set up for paddle shifting. Just look at a C6 Corvette, a PontG8, or a CTS V. For a hybrid conversion, just call John Spears at Speartech. He makes a module that will take switch inputs and convert it into a signal that will talk to the trans computer. He built one for my 67 Chevelle wagon, and it works beautifully! The trans computer will need to be properly programed to accept the inputs, but John can do this as well. You just need to pull the computer valve body out of the pan and send it in to him. If you have a local tuner that is knowledgeable, it can be done through the OBDII port on the ECM.

Mine works very well and shifts very quickly.

The big downside of the 6L trans in conversions, is that the trans is HUGE! I ended up cutting away all the original tunnel on my Chevelle and fabricating an entire new tunnel.
Also, the 6L trans will only work with late model ECM's that use CAN. If you are using an earlier engine, the TCI trans is about you only option, and it is over $5K. It uses a 4L80 case as its basis, so it is quite a bit smaller. It uses its own stand-alone TCM and is is setup for manual sequential *****, up and down.


Regards, John McGraw
What are you using to do the actual shifts? I asked John about paddle shifting but I never understood what you actually pushed to do the shift?
__________________
Scout with a L92 and 6L80 waiting to be installed
ChiScouter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 07:53 PM   #5
LS1Tech Sponsor
Garage is empty, add now
 
MikeFSKSpeed's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 36
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 777
Default

Hurst has them out for the 2011 camaro, I'm sure it can easily be adapted into the computer.
__________________
Mike F
S-K Speed Racing Equipment
The Professional Performance People
www.skspeed.com
ASK Me about the best prices on Holley HP/Dominator EFI Systems - Kooks/ARH Headers - Carb Conversion Kits
Send me a PM before Buying Elsewhere. Best prices for LS1 Tech Members!
MikeFSKSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 08:16 PM   #6
LS1Tech Sponsor
2008 Pontiac G8
My Garage
 
Trader Rating: 5
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toms River, NJ
Posts: 1,229
Default

Twist Machine has a kit.

Jon
PSI
__________________

THE Source for IN STOCK Custom Tailored Standalone Wiring Harnesses, PCMs, Motor Mounts, Accessory Brackets, Fuel Systems and Much, Much More!

Choose the company other's CHOOSE to COPY...PSI!

www.Psiconversion.com Ebay Store FACEBOOKCOM/PSICONVERSION

'Dont Let EFI Pass You By!'
psiconversion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 10:25 PM   #7
TECH Regular
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiScouter View Post
What are you using to do the actual shifts? I asked John about paddle shifting but I never understood what you actually pushed to do the shift?
Pretty much anything you want. All you need is a momentary contact switch of any kind for the upshift and another for the downshift. There are a bunch of paddles that mount under your steering wheel and have a paddle under the rim of the wheel on each side. On my wagon, I mounted some micro switches to the G8 shifter, so I could tap-up and tap-down on the shifter, and added a second set of paddle switches in parallel at the steering wheel, so I would not have to take my hands off the wheel. The box John builds, is just looking for a momentary switch closure, for either up or down shift.

I could not use the stock G8 shifter switches, as it used hall effect sensors that talk to the BCM, and then the BCM sends a signal to the TCM. John told me after I had gone to all the trouble to mount the micro switches to the G8 shifter, that the CTS V shifter uses actual switches for tap shifting, just like the Corvette does for their paddle shifters.


Regards, John McGraw
John McGraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 10:11 PM   #8
Staging Lane
2003 Subaru Impreza
My Garage
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 53
Default

great information gentlemen!!!! (as always), thankyou very much.

Is there anyone out there that has had experience fitting one of these into a S14? If so how much cutting will be involved? I am pretty much sold assuming the amount of cutting will not cause any unsafe conditions, especially if significant amount of cutting was needed for a chevelle. While I have never owned one I'd venture to say the tunnel is much larger....

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure of what a package will run to handle 600 whp RELIABLY? I know these trannys are beefy, especially since they are implemented in the V, etc, but I have a tendency to have a significant amount of fun with my toys, so I don't want to rebuild in 6 months.
Damn I'm excited..... the thought of a forged ls2 + (more than likely) pt76 + paddle shifting is probably going to prevent me from sleeping tonight.... and tommorrow.

Thankyou very much for the information gentlement, I will surely be in touch with John.

and as far as the paddles I will be looking to adapt from an M5.... they fit my fat lanky hands perfect; but i am not aware the amount of electronics that are integrated into the paddles themselves, so I do realize this could not be possible or extremely difficult. If this is not an option or will take a considerable amount of effort, please try to reccommend something other than hurst. IMO they are huge and gaudy, not much in the way of my style. but if they are my only option so be it.

PSIconversion: thankyou very much for that suggestion, they are much smaller and will fit the overall demeanour of the car much better!!! Also will be much easier to adapt than m5 paddles. Also comes in black Thanks!


Last edited by beatmeofficer; 12-15-2011 at 01:49 AM..
beatmeofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 10:57 PM   #9
Staging Lane
2003 Subaru Impreza
My Garage
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 53
Default

Excuse but two more questions, as electronics on this level are beyond me. Would it be possible to wire a simple button system that sets the car into full automatic mode, park or finally neutral (basically any of these) that I could mount in the stock shifter location without adapting the entire shifter assembly of the donor car? I believe this would produce a very clean look I would be extremely happy with as well as being very unique, even if it would be somewhat pricey to setup.

Finally this is slightly off topic but does pretain to my hybrid. The car will be as much of sleeper as I can keep it. Non-fancy paint job, stock taillights, no tint, no **** etc.. But as far as wheels go are there any options that are not overly flashy and easily mounted with stock bolt pattern that will allow mounting of rubber that will keep me on the road? I WILL eventually be converting to a beefier rear end after I snap the stock diff, but for now I would still like the 240 to look respectable and hook (somewhat) without drawing too much aesthetic attention.

Last edited by beatmeofficer; 12-15-2011 at 01:16 AM..
beatmeofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2011, 06:48 AM   #10
Staging Lane
Garage is empty, add now
 
62n62's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 13
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: fort worth texas
Posts: 96
Default 6 speed in a 62 6.2 nova wagon

This is what we are doing on my col in a 62 nova wagon with a 6 speed 2010 truck shift lever end machined down like the stock lever works great will have to use bcm, using it anyway for all the stuff it does ,auto lights door locks theater lighting etc
Click the image to open in full size.
62n62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2011, 07:25 PM   #11
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
S10xGN's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 11
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Neches, TX
Posts: 2,866
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62n62 View Post
This is what we are doing on my col in a 62 nova wagon with a 6 speed 2010 truck shift lever end machined down like the stock lever works great will have to use bcm, using it anyway for all the stuff it does ,auto lights door locks theater lighting etc
That horn ring is just beggin' to be modded into a paddle setup!
__________________
Russ Selkirk

Sonic Blue Pearl '72 Ford Maverick, 346" LS-1, TSP Torquer V.2 cam,
Holley HP-750 carb, Victor, JR intake, MSD-6010, 200R4, PI 3600 Vig,
Ford 9" Detroit Locker, 3.50 gear, Caltrac's, M&H P325/50-15 DR's.
S10xGN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2011, 08:39 PM   #12
LS1Tech Sponsor
2008 Pontiac G8
My Garage
 
Trader Rating: 5
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toms River, NJ
Posts: 1,229
Default

I second that S10!!!

Jon
PSI
__________________

THE Source for IN STOCK Custom Tailored Standalone Wiring Harnesses, PCMs, Motor Mounts, Accessory Brackets, Fuel Systems and Much, Much More!

Choose the company other's CHOOSE to COPY...PSI!

www.Psiconversion.com Ebay Store FACEBOOKCOM/PSICONVERSION

'Dont Let EFI Pass You By!'
psiconversion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2011, 09:35 PM   #13
Staging Lane
2003 Subaru Impreza
My Garage
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 53
Default

that would be quite slick....
beatmeofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 07:16 AM   #14
Staging Lane
Garage is empty, add now
 
62n62's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 13
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: fort worth texas
Posts: 96
Default horn ring

how are you doing it s10xgn to make horn ring paddle shift
62n62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 01:59 PM   #15
TECH Regular
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 416
Default

Yes, you can use any shifter. You do not need to move the shifter to get the car into the manual mode, you just need to start pushing the upshift or downshift buttons. In order to get it back in to the automatic mode, you simply shift into neutral and then back into drive.



Regards, John McGraw
John McGraw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 07:54 PM   #16
Staging Lane
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 82
Default

We have it in the GTO. 4L60e. Still working on the horn button!

Same principle as a 6L80. The paddle shifter itself is the easy part. Getting the trans setup to shift when and how firmly you want it to can be a pain. It's not as simple as it sounds.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
'67 GTO LS3 Swap
CFster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 09:26 PM   #17
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
S10xGN's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 11
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Neches, TX
Posts: 2,866
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62n62 View Post
how are you doing it s10xgn to make horn ring paddle shift
Dunno, but I'd try and work it out. It would be so slick to have a stock horn ring that worked as a paddle shifter.
__________________
Russ Selkirk

Sonic Blue Pearl '72 Ford Maverick, 346" LS-1, TSP Torquer V.2 cam,
Holley HP-750 carb, Victor, JR intake, MSD-6010, 200R4, PI 3600 Vig,
Ford 9" Detroit Locker, 3.50 gear, Caltrac's, M&H P325/50-15 DR's.
S10xGN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 09:39 PM   #18
Staging Lane
2003 Subaru Impreza
My Garage
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 53
Default

John, thanks for the reply.

CF: that looks fantastic. Is it the actual programming that is the issue? Is the software user to adjust user friendly? What specific problems are you running into? thanks in advance.

I'm considering changing the entire project to an RX-8 at this point but that's not entirely important at this time.

As far as a launch control system, how would this would with a paddle shifting 6l80? By this I mean the actual method to stall the car up, would it be as simple as a neutral drop? From what i understand this method is generally rough on trannys so I'm assuming this system would use a different method, and am not well versed on how this types of systems stall the car up. If someone could shed some light on this it would be much appreciated.
beatmeofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 07:35 PM   #19
Staging Lane
2003 Subaru Impreza
My Garage
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 53
Default

bump for possible answers
beatmeofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 09:44 PM   #20
Staging Lane
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatmeofficer View Post
CF: that looks fantastic. Is it the actual programming that is the issue? Is the software user to adjust user friendly? What specific problems are you running into? thanks in advance.
In my case it was getting engine braking. 4L60Es freewheel when downshifted manually, unless you physically move the shifter. So, when I'm in OD and click the paddle to downshift nothing obvious happens. It's almost as if the trans goes into neutral. If I happened to be accelerating at the time, then there would be an obvious downshift, but nothing under deceleration. Come to find out there's a heavy duty shift valve made by Sonnax that I can install that will engage the overrun clutch in 3-2 and 2-1 and give engine braking. However, no braking from 4-3. So, I have to physically to shift the lever into 3rd if I want to really play with the paddle shift. Kind of a waste of time, and had I known beforehand maybe I would have done things differently.

Also, there is a half second delay built into my Shrifter - takes a little getting used to. They do that on purpose to prevent damage to the transmission.

The other issue is I don't have any kind of gear display. I could mount the LCD display for my Compushift controller on the dash but that would be just butt ugly. It really is difficult sometimes to know what gear you're in, and if it actually completed the shift (especially when downshifting). I'm really surprised nobody has come out with a little LED display that could go on top of the column or something.

Now, the 6L80Es have the capability of engine braking in all gears (I believe). However, they're not without their shortcomings. They can't handle a lot of power, and are geared for economy, not performance. They're also so freeking big that once you get the trans and engine mounted high enough to get enough ground clearance for the pan then you've got a crazy driveshaft angle to contend with (not to mention half your interior cut out).

There are some six speed 4L80Es out there like TCI's 6x that can handle a lot more power and are a lot smaller.
__________________
'67 GTO LS3 Swap
CFster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 09:44 PM
LS1Tech
Pontiac Firebird




Paid Advertisement
Reply

Tags
computer, conversion, corvette, cost, firebird, lever, ls1, options, paddle, pontiac, shift, shifter, shifters, shifting, transmission


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2
Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - JOBS
Emails & Contact Details