Using Ford rack with stock LS pump = disaster. Help!
02-08-2012, 08:40 PM
#1
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Using Ford rack with stock LS pump = disaster. Help! Well, I almost made it. I started the truck up tonight really for the first time. It ran great and then my son pointed at the ground and there was PS fluid flowing onto the garage floor and sprayed all the way to the back of the truck! AHHHH!!! This was a brand new rack that came with the TCI Mustang II front end. I'm pretty sure it blew the seals because it doesn't look like it's leaking out of any of the fittings.
From the forums I just read, they all recommend Borgeson P/N 899001 to reduce the pressure. BUT, is that really the problem?! Since I wasn't turning the steering wheel, there should be no pressure to speak of in the steering system if everything was connected correctly and the parts were not defective. If I was building pressure just by running the engine, something is probably wrong! - the return hose is blocked, the rack is contaminated, something like that but I don't see anything.
I know Heidt's also sells a valve for Ford rack/GM pump installations but real unsure where to go now.
One thing I will say that we noticed when we tried to start the truck on the weekend, the front end shook violently in the beginning, enough to turn the wheel . We thought maybe it was because it was the first start and there was air in the lines.
I put it together so long ago, I don't remember if the fittings were the same size but I don't believe they were. Meaning, it wouldn't be possible to put the return on the supply side and supply on return. IF it was reversed, is this what you'd suspect? Does anyone know for sure which port is supply and return on an early 80's T-bird rack?
Jeff
From the forums I just read, they all recommend Borgeson P/N 899001 to reduce the pressure. BUT, is that really the problem?! Since I wasn't turning the steering wheel, there should be no pressure to speak of in the steering system if everything was connected correctly and the parts were not defective. If I was building pressure just by running the engine, something is probably wrong! - the return hose is blocked, the rack is contaminated, something like that but I don't see anything.
I know Heidt's also sells a valve for Ford rack/GM pump installations but real unsure where to go now.
One thing I will say that we noticed when we tried to start the truck on the weekend, the front end shook violently in the beginning, enough to turn the wheel . We thought maybe it was because it was the first start and there was air in the lines.
I put it together so long ago, I don't remember if the fittings were the same size but I don't believe they were. Meaning, it wouldn't be possible to put the return on the supply side and supply on return. IF it was reversed, is this what you'd suspect? Does anyone know for sure which port is supply and return on an early 80's T-bird rack?
Jeff
02-08-2012, 09:03 PM
#2
line position Get in touch with UNisteer, they are up on the pressure/volume needed for the situation you have, can also tell you the pressure /return position on your rack...
02-09-2012, 09:34 AM
#3
Jemo, it is a pressure problem, it's a mismatched pump to rack issue. It's known that the GM pump creates too much pressure for the Ford or Omni style rack and pinions. The violent shaking and the wheel turning you mentioned on start-up was most likely due to the extreme pressure the pump was supplying to the rack which in turn caused the seals to pop shooting fluid everywhere. Several sources offer a pressure reduction valve (such as the Heidt's valve you mentioned). The rack and pinion on my '32 Ford coupe TCI chassis (rear steer) is a Unisteer Dodge Omni style, it's a manual rack so I don't have the pressure issue. Do as oldngray suggested, contact Unisteer (or the manufacturer of your r&p) tell them what happened, in case of possible damage to the rack, then follow their recommendations. I can assure you, you will need the pressure reduction valve but you will need to find out which one to use with your pump/r&p combo.
I've also seen instances on lightweight hot rods where slightly too much pump pressure will make the car feel 'twitchy' going down the road, a reduction in pump pressure cures the problem and makes them drive normal.
Hope this help.
I've also seen instances on lightweight hot rods where slightly too much pump pressure will make the car feel 'twitchy' going down the road, a reduction in pump pressure cures the problem and makes them drive normal.
Hope this help.
02-09-2012, 09:43 AM
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I'm running an LS1 pump on my 67 camaro with the Ford Rack from a foxbody. I sent my pump to turnone to install the reduction valve and work thier magic on the rest of the pump. They say they do it all the time, but I can't swear on it because I havn't fired off the engine yet.
02-09-2012, 09:39 PM
#6
Well, I almost made it. I started the truck up tonight really for the first time. It ran great and then my son pointed at the ground and there was PS fluid flowing onto the garage floor and sprayed all the way to the back of the truck! AHHHH!!! This was a brand new rack that came with the TCI Mustang II front end. I'm pretty sure it blew the seals because it doesn't look like it's leaking out of any of the fittings.
From the forums I just read, they all recommend Borgeson P/N 899001 to reduce the pressure. BUT, is that really the problem?! Since I wasn't turning the steering wheel, there should be no pressure to speak of in the steering system if everything was connected correctly and the parts were not defective. If I was building pressure just by running the engine, something is probably wrong! - the return hose is blocked, the rack is contaminated, something like that but I don't see anything.
I know Heidt's also sells a valve for Ford rack/GM pump installations but real unsure where to go now.
One thing I will say that we noticed when we tried to start the truck on the weekend, the front end shook violently in the beginning, enough to turn the wheel . We thought maybe it was because it was the first start and there was air in the lines.
I put it together so long ago, I don't remember if the fittings were the same size but I don't believe they were. Meaning, it wouldn't be possible to put the return on the supply side and supply on return. IF it was reversed, is this what you'd suspect? Does anyone know for sure which port is supply and return on an early 80's T-bird rack?
Jeff
From the forums I just read, they all recommend Borgeson P/N 899001 to reduce the pressure. BUT, is that really the problem?! Since I wasn't turning the steering wheel, there should be no pressure to speak of in the steering system if everything was connected correctly and the parts were not defective. If I was building pressure just by running the engine, something is probably wrong! - the return hose is blocked, the rack is contaminated, something like that but I don't see anything.
I know Heidt's also sells a valve for Ford rack/GM pump installations but real unsure where to go now.
One thing I will say that we noticed when we tried to start the truck on the weekend, the front end shook violently in the beginning, enough to turn the wheel . We thought maybe it was because it was the first start and there was air in the lines.
I put it together so long ago, I don't remember if the fittings were the same size but I don't believe they were. Meaning, it wouldn't be possible to put the return on the supply side and supply on return. IF it was reversed, is this what you'd suspect? Does anyone know for sure which port is supply and return on an early 80's T-bird rack?
Jeff
I have this same combo in my Maverick. I ran mine for awhile w/o any "reducer valves", just straight full-flow fittings and never had any issue with blown seals. I did, however, suffer the "shakes" like you did while trying to bleed the system and that's what convinced me to add the DSE valve in the pump outlet. See if you can exchange the rack and try again...
02-09-2012, 10:13 PM
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Thank you all for your replies. I called Unisteer this morning and the guy straight away said if it was shaking the way it did, I had the hoses reversed. He said the pump at normal pressure wouldn't blow the seals on a ford rack that quickly. I spent 2 hours tonight removing the old rack. No idea how I'm going to get the new one back in but it was only $79. One step forward, two steps back. Jeff
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02-10-2012, 10:31 PM
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I just found a video on youtube that shows how to install the shims.
Search for: "Power Steering Pump Pressure Reducing For Your Mustang Rack and Pinion"
**Beware of language used in video** Just lettin' you know.
Search for: "Power Steering Pump Pressure Reducing For Your Mustang Rack and Pinion"
**Beware of language used in video** Just lettin' you know.
02-11-2012, 03:17 PM
#12
I know, i got all that from the earlier posts in the thread, I was asking if a steering gear (recirculating ball) will suffer the same way a rack would.
02-12-2012, 04:47 PM
#14
I've never in my life heard a rack and pinion referred to as a "steering gear". I didn't mean to confuse you, nor was I trying to be "rude".
02-12-2012, 07:44 PM
#15
I didn't take it as rude, it's prolly just a "generation gap" thing. Us old guys grew up calling everything from the steering wheel to the spindles "gear", just as a camper or rock climber would call all his stuff "gear". "Gear" is a loose term that covers a multitude of parts...
