ShawnQ

So I purchased a Grand Wagoneer a while back, and love it. It has an AMC 5.9/360 in it with a 727. Although it runs well, I want to make it more 'daily driver' friendly, more economical, more powerful, and more reliable.

Easy choice - LS power!

I've been searching through local classifieds and junkyards, and finally found a few LS engine/trans combos.

First question:
1) If I do not mind keeping AFM/VVT, am I OK looking at the newer engines that have it? I'm not building a hot rod...just want reliable daily driven stock power.

With that said, I found a 2009 drivetrain, already removed from the truck. It was removed 'correctly' in that all wiring and hoses etc are in good shape. The price is decent IMHO, but I want to make sure it will work.

The seller said it's a 5.3
To be honest, I don't want to pull it apart to verify it...because 5.3/4.8 really doesn't matter a whole lot to me.

What does matter is transmission. I have all of the codes, and can't seem to verify which transmission it is.

I've attached the identification sticker on it. 9CAA, 2009 model - but can't verify what CAA is.

Any help?

Also, it has the 243 heads - which my reading has determined means it could be either a 4.8 or 5.3. Will the codes on the ECM give me any info as to which it is?

I've attached the photos - trying to decide whether or not to pull the trigger on this combo.

Thanks,
Shawn

ShawnQ

Just about certain its a 5.3 and a 6L80e.

Now, he does not have the gas pedal. How much of a hassle will it be to get a pedal, and will it have to be 09 or will multiple years fit?
Will each pedal require programming or is it just a switch, more or less?

Thanks
shawn

ijimmy

the computer program will reveal the motors displacement
the gas pedal should be very easy to acquire , there are several different "drive by wire" gas pedals , you just need to get the appropriate one specific to the year and model vehicle the engine and computer came from

ShawnQ

Thanks. I've been reading more and apparently this year model does not use a TAC module. He may have the pedal, I completely forgot to ask.

ShawnQ

Well...I went and bought a 5.3 / 6L80E!

Time to start the tear down and replace the powertrain!

I removed the fenders, wheel wells, all accessories that were attached, and the core support is detached but still setting in place to hold the radiator. Im trying to keep it 'running' so a prospective buyer can fire it up and see/hear it run. I'll only keep it that way for a few more days. I hope to have the entire drivetrain out by Tuesday.

Here's a few progress pics from day #1!













Once I get the original drivetrain pulled, I'll clean up the engine bay, maybe paint it, and start figuring out how to drop the 5.3 in there.

I still don't have engine mounts.

I still don't know if the factory exhaust manifolds will fit. Id rather not purchase a set of headers...but if I must, so be it. I just don't see how this 5.3 w/factory truck manifolds could take up more room between the frame rails than a 5.9 w/longtube headers.

Time will tell!

Still holding out hope that JeepinPete will answer me for engine mounts...if not, I guess BJs/Novak it is!

Stay tuned
Shawn

cruisin'73

iTrader: (8)

Hey Shawn, welcome to LS1Tech! Awesome project you are jumping into. I have always liked the old Wagoneers, and I'm excited to see how this comes out for ya. Just a couple thoughts. Since the engine is out and easy to work on this would be a good time to perform a few maintenance tasks to help insure longevity and maybe a few small performance upgrades. Like checking out the timing chain, replacing, replacing valve seals, If it has a lot of miles maybe a new oil pump.

Also, maybe consider some mild performance upgrades. Like replacing the weak truck prings with LS6 or aftermarket springs. Maybe hardened pushrods. And maybe take a look at upgrading the cam to something with a little more spice? An LS1 cam is worth 40hp/40tq and can had for $50 in the classified section! or maybe just a little more spicy but still tame: the GM HOTCAM for like $150. Here is a Carcraft article comparing several stock and a few aftermarket cams to the LM7.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...st_comparison/

Just think of me as the little devil on your shoulder! Keep the pics and updates coming!

ShawnQ

Cruisin,

Thanks for the info. The engine came out of a low mileage truck...so im going to go with it 'as-is' to get it running.

Once I've got all of the linkage, fuel, and electronic kinks worked out - I'll end up pulling it and adding a few goodies. I didn't realize that the core support on these jeeps was so easy to remove. Now that i know, future engine R & I will be fairly easy.

I just want to make sure I can make it work stock before I throw dollars at it for performance. The AMC in these trucks is weak in comparison to a stock 5.3, so it will already be a huge increase in power.

ShawnQ

Today the Jeep lost several hundred pounds!

It was interesting pulling the drivetrain all as one unit, but not too bad. Definitely better than dropping a trans or transfer case without a transmission jack of some kind.

I had to remove a engine mount horn to get the combo out - the longtubes just hung too low. I already had a hole in my heater box...I've got two now!

Here's a few pics:











Tomorrow I plan to possibly pick up an Np241C. I've also got a gentleman coming to purchase the original 360/727/np229.

If I have time I hope to remove the harness from the 5.3 & start cleaning it up. Possibly lift and test fit the engine/trans, see how it looks with the factory manifolds. I still haven't found a good answer on which factory manifolds fit and which dont. I have the whole truck y-pipe, cats, etc still attached to the 5.3. It would be really nice if all of that fit. Would make for an easy exhaust job later!

Update tomorrow....

SQ

ShawnQ

This gen iv / 6l80 is proving to be a little mpre difficult than the gen ii swaps. I know several have used it and made it work but there isn't nearly as much information out there, especially not for 4wd vehicles.

I have 2ea. NP241C transfer cases lined up to look at. Hopefully I can pick one up Friday and figure out what I will need to do to my transmission since I have a 2wd output and tailshaft housing. I know I will have to trim my output shaft, not sure how much. Ive also heard I will have to adapt a 4wd rear seal to my 2wd transmission. We'll see what that entails.

Here's a shot of the engine somewhere close to where it will sit. The 6l80e is actually shorter than a 4L80e, so that shouldn't be an issue.





One question: has anyone found a good source for replacement body mount bushings like the ones used on the core support mounts? Mine were rusted to dust just like everyone elses...

We'll see what I can get accomplished this weekend when I'm off!

ShawnQ

Quick update:
Ive been at work since Wednesday a.m...but I have made some progress still.

-I went ahead and ordered a set of Novak mounts. Looking forward to bolting them in.

-purchased a 4x4 6l80e tail housing so I can adapt my 2wd trans to a np241C transfer case

-located a factory air box, hopefully I can pick it up soon and figure out how I want to modify it.

Now I need to decide on whether or not to paint the engine compartment. I think I will. May as well while it's apart.

Tomorrow I get off of work and hope to clean up the engine and engine bay.

More to come.

cruisin'73

iTrader: (8)

So converting a 2wd to a 4wd trans is all in the tail case? That would be pretty sweet. I am pretty sure that with a lot of older trans it requires a nearly complete teardown to change the tail shaft housing. Besides the trans/tcase issue how is it all coming?

You should totally throw some fresh paint in there while it is all torn apart. It may not be a show car, but you want to be able to show it off and be proud! I bet 1 solid day with scrub brushes, pressure washer a little paint prep and a couple rattle cans and you could have it looking better then new!

Great work, you are getting a TON done! Keep working and you will have her together in time for camping/outdoor season!

tfi racing

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=cruisin'73;18097816]So converting a 2wd to a 4wd trans is all in the tail case? That would be pretty sweet. I am pretty sure that with a lot of older trans it requires a nearly complete teardown to change the tail shaft housing. Besides the trans/tcase issue how is it all coming? /QUOTE]

I don't think it's quite that simple either.There isn't a lot of parts involved,but AFAIK it requires a complete teardown to change the output shaft.

ShawnQ

[QUOTE=tfi racing;18097990]The tail shaft on the 2wd is 9.xxx" long IIRC, and fully splined.
The 4wd is 4.xx"
You do not have to remove the shaft if going 2 to 4. You do if going 4 to 2.
You also put a 4x4 rear seal in it and put a plug in the oiling holes that are used in the 2wd. When I get the tcase adapter I'll document it for you guys and everyone else. JeepSpeedShop has done it numerous times. Look up their builds.

Got my transfer case today! Came out of a 94 K2500 suburban, so it already has the correct spline count on the input. The guy also threw the floor shifter and both driveshafts in.

I am still waiting on the factory adapter from the 6l80e, it should be here tomorrow. Once I have that I can test fit it and see if it will need to be clocked or not.










I went ahead and rinsed the engine and transmission also.





Engine mounts should be here Wednesday.

Tomorrow I may pull the rolling chassis out and decrease the engine bay. Whats the best method to remove 25yrs of grime? I've got a pressure washer...

I'm anxious! I have little patience for shipping.

Update tomorrow.
SQ

ShawnQ

Saw this link on another website, and figured I would include it here. This will be very helpful when I get around to wiring:

http://www.gmupfitter.com/pdflists/view/6

You can view all of the schematics for the trucks.

zdiesel

Badass, Lifted LS swapped wagoneer is on my list of projects to do. Thing should be badass when its done!

Eaglefreek

Have you checked on the full size Jeep forums? A few guys have down the swap, so there should be info about which mounts and exhaust manifolds. http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/
http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/

ShawnQ

I'm a member of both forums and have been following several build threads. However, most people with the mounts I am using are running headers.

Im at work until Friday but the mounts should be at my house today. I'll bolt them to the engine and the frame on Friday and see how it looks.

I'll post an update this weekend!

Lq4runner

love these grand cherokees! this is my #2 favorite truck. Id have one if I didnt have my 4runner. looking good so far! Cant wait to see it done!

ShawnQ

Degreased and pressure washed the engine bay after removing the heater box and blower.



Funny note - ever since I bought the Jeep I had no idea what lift kit was on it. The pressure washer revealed it is a Hell Creek 6" lift based on the yellow paint on the leaf springs that reads 'Hell Creek FSJ6'. Glad I know!

Loosely fitted the Novak mounts.









My brother came into town and we'll be dropping the engine in tomorrow to make sure it all fits & decide which mounting locations to use. Hopefully we can figure out the trans crossmember ad well.

Otherwise, I removed the carpet and seats, the underdash a/c parts, and the gauge cluster. Im considering removing the dash.

ShawnQ

Here's a quick update:

Here's a few updated pics from today.

Removed the 2wd tailhousing from the 6L80E, and checked the fitment of the 4wd housing, transfer case bolt spacing, etc. I also rough-estimated the length I need to trim on the output shaft. It looks like I need to have about .5-.75" extending beyond the face of the transfer case adapter. This will give me full spline engagement in the NP241C.








I believe I need to fill/plug the two holes where my fingers are pointing. These are capped in the 4wd transmissions (I believe - can anyone verify?)


And I believe the 4wd transmission rear-seal will cover up this orifice. The 2wd seal is a large o-ring that goes around the perimeter of the housing. The 4wd transfer case adapter does not have a groove recessed for this o-ring. From what I gather, people are installing a 4wd rear seal, plugging the two small 3/8" holes, and then they're good to go.




And here's the backside of the engine- first time I've seen it. Looks clean as expected for low miles.


I set the engine back in before welding up the mounts, without the transmission, just to double check everything. Look how close the crank pulley is to the swaybar:





I plan to get some paint on the frame rails and new mounts tomorrow, and then I can work on permanently installing the engine and mocking up my transmission location/crossmember.

I also plan to trim the output shaft on the transmission this weekend so I can put the transfer case onto it and check mounting and shifter locations.

I did run into an issue: The heater box is going to be nearly impossible to install! How much clearance do you guys have on yours? There isn't much room at all on this thing...

Also, the stock 5.3/6L80E truck Y-pipe wont fit due to the location of the catalytic converters. I was hoping I would get lucky. I guess I can at least use the cats and o2 sensors...

Slowly but surely.
Shawn