V8Rumble

iTrader: (9)

Hey all,

I got to thinking (yes, I know that's frequently dangerous...), & I thought I'd make a thread that's a little bit different than most that you see on here. Rather than detailing a swap project, I'd like to ask a bunch of the people who've gotten their swaps completed/on the road ONE quick question:

I'm thinking about guys like cam, Pocket, rockytopper, Andrew (Gattago), bczee, & a number of others (incl. the infamous ls1nova71 of 'Family Truckster' fame) who've gotten their swaps completed, & stuck around on this forum to help others out. OH, just one more thing - you can't say "Make an estimated budget, then (double it/triple it/add 50%/etc.)" - that's just too obvious, too easy!!

Thanks guys, I'm hoping that we might get some thought-provoking answers that help a lot of people who aren't so far along...

Oscar Will

Ok, I can participate in this one... my 1935 Ford has been on the road for a decade and over 30k miles.

What would I have done differently??? Two things actually, first of all I would have never sold my T56 and put the 4L60e in the car... I've regretted the auto trans to this day. Secondly, I originally built the LS1 5.7 with the Zo6 intake, springs and the racing C6r chain guide and the GM Hot Cam along with probably the most meticulous blueprint and assembly I've ever done. The very first road test I pulled the car back into the shop and I replaced the Hot Cam with a stock LS1 regular grocery getter camshaft...BIG mistake, should have left the Hot Cam in it.

Other than those listed above it's been a great car and I'm glad I decided to go the way I did, my other option back in 1998 was a big 'ol Cadillac 500 cubic inch "boat anchor".

68Hybrid

Good call on this thread-- I'd be interested to see what other people have to say.

I got a lot of info here, but never made my own build thread.

Quick summary:
68 El Camino,

Engine:
(used) LQ4, Edelbrock Pro-Flo intake manifold, Texas Speed 228R cam, Dart Pro 1 225CC heads, hooker long tubes

Trans:
(used) 4L80E, 3000 stall converter; 9" rear, 3.50 gears

Other Odd n' Ends:
Spectre Premium "fuel injection" tank (factory remade tank with in tank pump and extra baffles), -8an lines... etc

Dynoed @ 393 whp, 13.37 seconds in the 1/4 (had a head wind, don't remember mph)
Went through 3 sets of o2 sensors in 1.5 years before finding a vacuum leak and got it retuned by my tuner on the street.
No dyno numbers since the retune, but i went 12.83 @ 109mph (feels a lot stronger)

Things I'd do different:
- A better gas tank! I'm pretty sure you get what you pay for here (i'll spare you my issues with this, but I've had many thus far...)
- Buy better matching parts for the engine (heads are too big + manifold doesn't match the heads or cam = not a lot of low end torque) Matching is damn important! The better it matches, the closer to max potential the engine will be and the happier you'll be: take your time, don't cheap out-- do it once, do it right.
- Unless you plan to make a ton of power, something smaller than a 4L80 will probably suit you just fine.
* Used parts that look too good / cheap to be true are just that. Stay away. When buying new, you're also buying more confidence in the reliability of your combo (my opinion)

Other things to note:
- I get about 13.5 - 15 mpg (not as good as I was expecting. For reference, I cruise on the freeway @ 70mph = ~2500rpm). Same mileage i got with my <300hp 350 sbc / TH350 / 10 bolt
- With everything worked out, it starts the same every day. I'm super happy I did it. I've put almost 15,000 miles on it and I love it.

But... 12's aren't fast enough for me. I want more power. Can't decide if i want to go faster with the $$ tax associated with LS parts, and go bigger, FI or nitrous (or a combo of those), or... build a >500ci fuel injected big block. Anyone whose gone from a well built big block to an LS, lemme know what you think about the difference.

eng1nerd

iTrader: (2)

If I were to do it again, I would pull the motor one more time to get the wiring run better. Everythign works and looks good compared to most swaps. I just wish I had more strategically routed a few spots in the harness to look more "stock".

Otherwise I would do it about the same.

Marcello7x

iTrader: (10)

I really like this thread, should rename it to "Lessons Learned" and have it made into a sticky!

Im not "done" and never actually will be with my 1933 ford, although I've had mine on the road a bit last year and a fair amount more this year.

Formulate a plan and stick to it!!! In my case the car was built around a 5.3l driven around the block a few times then the motor was pulled and sold to buy a 404ci. I had purchased a ton of parts for it, albeit overkill for the lm7. Cam was too big, intake was too big, tb was too big[and prob still a bit much for the 404ci] So i had to either buy new parts or a bigger motor. Then i found the deal on everything for a stroker short-block, all new and block machined for cheap. Sold everything and bought and built that.

Now that its mostly done and having never gone over half throttle with the 404ci, i would have been more than happy with a stock 5.3l.

I also would have stuck to my budget, if i stuck to my original plan. Would have had the entire car built for under 10k.

rockytopper

The only thing I would really do different is I would install an after market a/c if I did it again. Most of the clutter under my hood is the original HVAC system. Other than that I wouldn't change anything. Very happy with it....
Rocky

autocomman

Well im sure ill get crap for it but the Olds wagon im in the middle of doing there are a few things that are done.almost done I would do differently if I redid them later.

The fuel lines for one, I ran all new lines. They are put in before the body is put on the frame so bending and angeling 3/8 steel lines is a ****, and installing in a 17 foot long car that was never EFI. Id prolly run them down the driver side too, or get a factory fuel line for the truck motor, the one that runs down the trans, and connect em up under the car. That would really simplify the run.

THe other is the ECU wiring. Ill have one bundle coming across behind the alternator, pretty much where the factory did. My first LS swap and I just didnt want to strip down the whole harness, though I prolly should to clean it up more. It will look clean when done, no doubt about that, but id rather have run the wiring behind the motor not out the side.

Either way this one is a driver, not a show car...it will look very clean and stock under the hood, which is what i want. But Im so far along, Im not gonna go back and change these things now, as long as they are not problematic, ill live with it

1bad03snake

iTrader: (16)

I've swapped a few mustangs. Things I'd do differently are..
1. Add 1ft to my harness. That way I could mount it in the back seat
2. Gut the factory dash harness
3. If I want a street car install AC.

geoff17

For my turbo ls fox there are 3 things I would have changed:
1. Hot side - wish I left room to grow in terms of what turbo can fit later down the road for an upgrade.
2. Like said above, a little longer harness so I could mount the ecm somewhere else.
3. Would not have bought a complete pullout (full motor and acc with ecm, harness, and trans). I never used ANY of the accessories on the motor or the brackets as I went to f-body front acc, never used the converter, never used the oil pan or the intake and also ended up buying a custom harness. Would have been much cheaper to just buy a short block or long block and source the trans separate.

1970camaroRS

iTrader: (8)

You car should be much, much quicker than it is.

usdmholden

Saving money doesn't always save money.

IE on my swap.

Should have just bought an aftermarket oil pan instead of modifying OEM.

Wasted time and money trying to make 4.6 motor mounts work instead of building from scratch.

gofastwclass

iTrader: (2)

Each car I build I update things I've learned from the previous build. Here is a list of things I would change if some small price increases weren't a concern. Most of these are for my Thunderbird as that was my first LSx swap. Part of my problem from an upgrade standpoint is time and motivation. It's difficult for me to take one out of service for a complete overhaul when it's otherwise working fine.

I would have (in no specific order)...

1. Installed a cam, springs and possibly milled and / or ported heads (largest regret).
2. Created a different style engine mount system.
3. Created the accessory drive OUTside the car instead of in the engine bay since the front clip can't come off (the Thunderbird was my first unibody swap).
4. Used mandrel bent tubing for the entire exhaust
5. Used aftermarket mufflers (higher flow)
6. Trashed the original fuel lines and run my own from 3/8" tubing (I now have the proper flare tool).
7. Laid the harness out completely differently (The PCM has moved four times)
8. Installed and configured for AC the first time instead of wiring it in later.
9. Go with aftermarket (or at least GM style) AC on the Thunderbird.
10. Made my own headers from mandrel bent tubing.
11. Made a factory style quick disconnect between the body and engine harness.
12. Moved the factory fuse block (Thunderbird) and swapped it for one that uses standard fuses.
13. Spent more time labeling fuses and relays at installation instead of backtracking.
14. Acquired a factory service manual or AllData BEFORE tearing into the vehicle wiring to integrate the LSx driveline into the MN12 chassis.
15. Upgraded the driveshaft and rear gear during the original build (wasted money).

superdave84

I would have spent more money on a better engine, transmission and torque converter up front instead of trying to save money in these areas.

I ended up having to scrap the 5.3 I bought (bad bearings, I think) converter is a boat anchor which will soon be thrown into a lake, and the transmission is about to undergo a complete rebuild.

I tried to save money on this stuff but in the end it cost me more because I ended up buying the RIGHT stuff later on.

1989GTA

On my 1965 Buick Skylark I can only think of one thing I would have done differently. I should have went with the Yank S3600 converter instead on the SS3200 I currently have.

I have used the SS3600 in the past with good results street/track and I also have used the SS4000 but that one leans more towards track use. I just wanted to try something different with the SS3200.

Now that I am going with the LS3 based 427 short block the SS3200 may turn out to be OK. We shall see.

zapp109

iTrader: (13)

I would of put twins instead of single turbo. Put main studs in the first time!! Went to a experienced LSX builder not just someone that knows engines. Hopefully 2nd engine is done right 400 miles on it now and still together (first engine lost crank and main bearings). Oh and went to a trusted trans builder my 4l80e BUILT lost reverse after dyno day and i had to get it rebuilt. (broke overdrive/reverse sprag)

Also part of me wished i would of went with my original plan of a Road race/ autoX instead of big turbo street/strip. But I guess my next build will be my autoX Fox.

operatorfailure

iTrader: (3)

68 c10 short stepper
5.3/4l60e
Stock everything

1. I would have went with a car intake. The truck intake is just so ugly.
2. I would have done a wire tuck. The ugly way the truck harness is routed drives me crazy.
3. Went with a 4l80 from the start, even though I got a great deal on the engine/trans combo.
4. Put quieter exhaust on it.
5. Really think about having a 45 year old truck as a daily driver. I love my truck but it isn't very practical unless I could dump another 5-10k in it for good suspension, air conditioning, completely do the interior the way it deserves.
6. Build it as a drag truck. I bought a daily now and the truck will be pulled apart and stripping unnecessary stuff to speed it up, and boost it like I have always been thinking about doing it.

truckdoug

iTrader: (25)

66 c10 lwb
5.3/4l60e
headers, HD upgrades in trans

i'd have factored in a nicer CAI, or a box ducted to the outside.
on hot days stuck in traffic I see my IAT creep to 170*F

also now consider HPtuners or the like a basic component of the swap.
stock tunes are for goons.

new delco knock sensors and harness immediately

Sarg

iTrader: (6)

I will revisit this later but off the top of my head:

1. Decide full on drag car or street strip. In it's current configuration it really is a drag only that can run on the street but is not overly pleasant.

2. Plan out the build better. Write it down and make a list.

3. Get a donor car that was running to start with to verify body wiring if possible.

4. More to come.

cam

iTrader: (9)

Agreed re the sticky potential here, good thread.

As for sticking around? Ive been building and swapping engines since I was a kid, im not going anywhere I'll do this til the day I die Im always building something.

Each time I build, I have things I wish I could do over, the desire to build a better mouse trap never ends. That said there is one key lesson ive learned over the years and thats to not cut corners, EVER, but cut entire projects. For instance when i started on the 87 third gen Rumble is talking about I drove the first year with no interior at all, just two front seats and a dash lol. The paint was mint and the drivetrain was tip top; fresh diff, brakes, wheels/tires etc all sorted out, but the interior could wait. Ive done similar skipping paint and body, or run stock suspension, even stock engines, etc etc it really depends on the project and how much it means to me and most importantly what its worth$ putting into.

Speaking of this 87 I had owned many 7.5" GM cars and already blown up so many diffs, and so many transmissions and had previous cars and breaking is the thing I loathe most so I built the whole chassis up first, then added power. When i look back now and remember flying around in my buddies 12 second Chevy2 with 8" front drums and an "auto steer right" bushing problem that we didnt fix? Well... insane really.

One final tip that works very well for me. I do the worst work first, always. As the project progresses motivation dwindles so if the work gets more and more fun? The more likely it is to get it done.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

I've done a few street/strip turbo swaps now, here’s what I’ve learned.

1.) Weight is the absolute biggest factor in going fast on a budget! (sub 2800lb chassis is a must IMO)

2.) Don’t dump you money in a cheap chassis that will exceed your ET and safety goals immediately. Buy/build a nice rolling chassis that is certified for your max ET goals from the get go. (Still learning this the hard way!)

3.) NA hotrods are a thing of the past… jump head first into forced induction! A modern JY motor with a $250 china turbo and a $75 mig welded steel hotside has more power potential than an NA setup with $5k worth of aftermarket heads/cam/intake/exhaust.

4.) Ditch the overdrive transmission! I dumped thousands into OD transmissions over the years. Finally I found the holy grail… aka the Powerglide! As long as you rule #1 and #3 this transmission performance VS cost is amazing. Contrary to what many say it can be VERY “streetable” with the right gearing. Mine performs great in town, on the highway, and at the strip.

5.) Driveline, power adder, fuel system, and fuel management should be the big money items. Engines will come and go.

6.) Bigger is not always better. Stick to “smallest” performance parts necessary to meet your goal. When monster cams/heads/turbos/hotsides are used they often do more harm than good.

7.) E85 is well worth the cost.