Cam'd 4.8 swap into 73 Nova, picking injection system help
02-05-2015, 10:36 AM
#1
Cam'd 4.8 swap into 73 Nova, picking injection system help So I need some advice guys. I've got a 4.8 LS /T56 going in my 73 nova.
I have a 4.8L with:
* TSP 224R cam
* ls7 lifters
* comp beehive springs
* single roller timing chain
* melling oil pump
* long tubes
* ls6 intake
* 11/32 pushrods
Goal is a great daily driver with mild street power, and decent MPG. I'm looking for 400-425 HP at the crank.
I currently have a wiring harness and ECU out of a 2002 Ls1 Camaro/T56.
In order to get this setup workable, I need to:
* prune the harness
* buy crimpers, terminals and misc wire and plugs
* buy Hptuners $600
* buy a laptop $500
* wideband O2 $300
What I don't like about this option is that the factory ECU is bulky, mounting is an issue, and there is a lot of tuning/learning involved.
I know Holley and MSD make EFI systems for the LS as well.
I like the MSD Atomic system because its sleek and there is no need to mount a large ECU somewhere, and no need for a laptop.
Right now it goes for $1699.
I'm not quite sure what the factory GM ECU and harness I have are worth, but if I can sell them for $500. I'll come out even versus going the OE route.
I have no experience with the Holley setup, other than I hear it is very versatile and has a ton of potential, but requires a laptop so I'd be $500 more into that one.
I'm looking for advice, experience, cost analysis, anything really.
Thanks
I have a 4.8L with:
* TSP 224R cam
* ls7 lifters
* comp beehive springs
* single roller timing chain
* melling oil pump
* long tubes
* ls6 intake
* 11/32 pushrods
Goal is a great daily driver with mild street power, and decent MPG. I'm looking for 400-425 HP at the crank.
I currently have a wiring harness and ECU out of a 2002 Ls1 Camaro/T56.
In order to get this setup workable, I need to:
* prune the harness
* buy crimpers, terminals and misc wire and plugs
* buy Hptuners $600
* buy a laptop $500
* wideband O2 $300
What I don't like about this option is that the factory ECU is bulky, mounting is an issue, and there is a lot of tuning/learning involved.
I know Holley and MSD make EFI systems for the LS as well.
I like the MSD Atomic system because its sleek and there is no need to mount a large ECU somewhere, and no need for a laptop.
Right now it goes for $1699.
I'm not quite sure what the factory GM ECU and harness I have are worth, but if I can sell them for $500. I'll come out even versus going the OE route.
I have no experience with the Holley setup, other than I hear it is very versatile and has a ton of potential, but requires a laptop so I'd be $500 more into that one.
I'm looking for advice, experience, cost analysis, anything really.
Thanks
Last edited by romancommander; 02-05-2015 at 12:05 PM.
02-05-2015, 03:04 PM
#4
Just my advice, I went with factory and have not looked back.
The harness was sent to Speartech and they did a great job of revising the harness.
I think for an extra hundred or so, you can have them edit the ECM to a base tune and go from there.
Before I went to forced induction, I ran the car on their base tune and the car went 12.00 in the quarter, got 19 MPG and idled like a dream.
So, you really do not need a laptop and HPT...that will save $1000
The BEST part about having Speartech doing the harness, they can lengthen it, edit it how you want and when you get it, you KNOW it will work. Otherwise, if you miss a crimp or have a color blind moment with a wire, you might be chasing wires for weeks.
Just my 2 cents...check out my signature for my nova build by the way...
The harness was sent to Speartech and they did a great job of revising the harness.
I think for an extra hundred or so, you can have them edit the ECM to a base tune and go from there.
Before I went to forced induction, I ran the car on their base tune and the car went 12.00 in the quarter, got 19 MPG and idled like a dream.
So, you really do not need a laptop and HPT...that will save $1000
The BEST part about having Speartech doing the harness, they can lengthen it, edit it how you want and when you get it, you KNOW it will work. Otherwise, if you miss a crimp or have a color blind moment with a wire, you might be chasing wires for weeks.
Just my 2 cents...check out my signature for my nova build by the way...
02-05-2015, 03:14 PM
#5
Just my advice, I went with factory and have not looked back.
The harness was sent to Speartech and they did a great job of revising the harness.
I think for an extra hundred or so, you can have them edit the ECM to a base tune and go from there.
Before I went to forced induction, I ran the car on their base tune and the car went 12.00 in the quarter, got 19 MPG and idled like a dream.
So, you really do not need a laptop and HPT...that will save $1000
The BEST part about having Speartech doing the harness, they can lengthen it, edit it how you want and when you get it, you KNOW it will work. Otherwise, if you miss a crimp or have a color blind moment with a wire, you might be chasing wires for weeks.
Just my 2 cents...check out my signature for my nova build by the way...
The harness was sent to Speartech and they did a great job of revising the harness.
I think for an extra hundred or so, you can have them edit the ECM to a base tune and go from there.
Before I went to forced induction, I ran the car on their base tune and the car went 12.00 in the quarter, got 19 MPG and idled like a dream.
So, you really do not need a laptop and HPT...that will save $1000
The BEST part about having Speartech doing the harness, they can lengthen it, edit it how you want and when you get it, you KNOW it will work. Otherwise, if you miss a crimp or have a color blind moment with a wire, you might be chasing wires for weeks.
Just my 2 cents...check out my signature for my nova build by the way...
http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums...d.php?t=281657
I would be shortening the harness and pruning it myself. Wow Speartech charges $750 for a harness? Their website says they don't do rework anymore. If I went stock control system, with my cam 224/224 .581/.581, I'd need a custom tune most likely with datalogs. I think I'd be even more expensive if I didn't buy the laptop and do it myself.
02-05-2015, 03:24 PM
#6
I think one of the most important things to consider is what will you do with the car in 5 years? Will you have a new engine, will you put a turbo on it, etc. If you end up changing your setup, you will need to be able to tune it or have it tuned after major changes.
Looking at the trends of my build, using the factory harness and ECM was a benefit at first but now the LSX market is a whole new ball game (5 years after I started my endeavors). 5 years ago, the aftermarket LSX stuff was not as "cool" nor with MY price range at the time.
Now, going aftermarket might cause other issues for you depending on your mix of parts. Not to bash holley or any other aftermarket EFI set-ups, but I have read other people having weird quirks and start-up issues....misfires, idle issues, GM part compatibility, etc. I guess you have to weigh the pros and cons. With some of the new holley stuff, you get the monitor that you can tune from which a bonus.
Looking at the trends of my build, using the factory harness and ECM was a benefit at first but now the LSX market is a whole new ball game (5 years after I started my endeavors). 5 years ago, the aftermarket LSX stuff was not as "cool" nor with MY price range at the time.
Now, going aftermarket might cause other issues for you depending on your mix of parts. Not to bash holley or any other aftermarket EFI set-ups, but I have read other people having weird quirks and start-up issues....misfires, idle issues, GM part compatibility, etc. I guess you have to weigh the pros and cons. With some of the new holley stuff, you get the monitor that you can tune from which a bonus.
02-05-2015, 03:31 PM
#7
I think one of the most important things to consider is what will you do with the car in 5 years? Will you have a new engine, will you put a turbo on it, etc. If you end up changing your setup, you will need to be able to tune it or have it tuned after major changes.
Looking at the trends of my build, using the factory harness and ECM was a benefit at first but now the LSX market is a whole new ball game (5 years after I started my endeavors). 5 years ago, the aftermarket LSX stuff was not as "cool" nor with MY price range at the time.
Now, going aftermarket might cause other issues for you depending on your mix of parts. Not to bash holley or any other aftermarket EFI set-ups, but I have read other people having weird quirks and start-up issues....misfires, idle issues, GM part compatibility, etc. I guess you have to weigh the pros and cons. With some of the new holley stuff, you get the monitor that you can tune from which a bonus.
Looking at the trends of my build, using the factory harness and ECM was a benefit at first but now the LSX market is a whole new ball game (5 years after I started my endeavors). 5 years ago, the aftermarket LSX stuff was not as "cool" nor with MY price range at the time.
Now, going aftermarket might cause other issues for you depending on your mix of parts. Not to bash holley or any other aftermarket EFI set-ups, but I have read other people having weird quirks and start-up issues....misfires, idle issues, GM part compatibility, etc. I guess you have to weigh the pros and cons. With some of the new holley stuff, you get the monitor that you can tune from which a bonus.
Any idea what the stock ecu and wiring are worth?
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02-05-2015, 03:44 PM
#9
Staging Lane
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Lot of the harnesses now come with a base tune option. There are a couple shops around here that do tunes for like $300 for basic bolt-ons..and up to $700 for a dyno tune(if you were to boost later on)
02-05-2015, 08:35 PM
#10
TECH Senior Member
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I am going with the Dominator ECU but only because I am using DBW throttle bodies.
The Holley is more flexible and you can learn to tune faster.
You don't need a fancy lap top. Find a used computer store in the area and get an older lap top for $100...
Andrew
02-07-2015, 06:13 AM
#11
On The Tree
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I would seriously consider a Microsquirt ECU for your application. Check out EFI source, you can buy a plug and play version from them for around 700 bucks. It would work great for you if you're concerned about price and physical size. (its about the size of a credit card). It wont do electronic transmissions, which is no problem for you since you're running a 6 speed. Base tuning software is free, with an upgraded version of tuner studio available for around 60 bucks (even though you could tune the car pretty comprehensively on the free version)
I used one in a 68 biscayne 4.8 swap. couldn't be happier, especially for the price.
Only downsides are its batch fire, not sequential injection, no idle air control (not big deal either. my car starts no problem at 15 degrees lol) and not too many extra inputs or outputs for electric fans or boost control or anything fancy like that.
But no matter which route you go, you're gonna need a wideband. I'd recommend the AEM UEGO. good unit and good price for like 175 from what i remember.
I used one in a 68 biscayne 4.8 swap. couldn't be happier, especially for the price.
Only downsides are its batch fire, not sequential injection, no idle air control (not big deal either. my car starts no problem at 15 degrees lol) and not too many extra inputs or outputs for electric fans or boost control or anything fancy like that.
But no matter which route you go, you're gonna need a wideband. I'd recommend the AEM UEGO. good unit and good price for like 175 from what i remember.