LS1/M6 in 55 chevy
08-18-2004, 08:12 PM
#21
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[QUOTE=ls14me]Armen:
What I am actually using is a C4 engine cradle that is the centerpiece of a front clip that is built around the cradle using a factory '55-'57 frame jig. Since the engine sits a couple of inches higher in the cradle in the '56 than it would in a C4 Vette, the F-body oil pan clears OK. Also, I believe only C5's came with the LS1, so a C4 cradle might be a little roomier anyway.
You can see pics of the clip before I attached it to the car on my website.
Paul
Just checked out your website! awesome car you are building! Are you doing all the fabrication by yourself? Where did you get that front clip? I am trying to decide if I should replace my entire front clip, or just modify it. Thanks, Armen
What I am actually using is a C4 engine cradle that is the centerpiece of a front clip that is built around the cradle using a factory '55-'57 frame jig. Since the engine sits a couple of inches higher in the cradle in the '56 than it would in a C4 Vette, the F-body oil pan clears OK. Also, I believe only C5's came with the LS1, so a C4 cradle might be a little roomier anyway.
You can see pics of the clip before I attached it to the car on my website.
Paul
Just checked out your website! awesome car you are building! Are you doing all the fabrication by yourself? Where did you get that front clip? I am trying to decide if I should replace my entire front clip, or just modify it. Thanks, Armen
08-18-2004, 09:24 PM
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[QUOTE=55LS1] Armen:
The clip was made for me by a guy who hangs out on www.Chevytalk.com who goes by the handle of Chevynut. He built a frame jig from some original Chevy drawings so that this stuff will come out right. He cut down a C4 cradle to make the front clip with. The rear suspension is actually pretty easy. It's just a 10 or so brackets to locate it, and some heavy wall tubing to mount the dog bones with. The whole front clip is TIG-welded and frankly, my welding pales in comparison to the job he did.
Here is my thought process on the front clip. When I bought this car, the previous owner had it for 28 years, and it was a drag car previous to that. In all that time, none of the suspension pieces had been changed from the factory, and the car drove and handled accordingly. I looked at all my options, and the big thing was that massive crossmember that these cars have. I mean you can put disc brakes, power steering, tubular a-arms, and sway bars on these things, but in the end you are still dealing with almost 50 year old suspension geometry. Also, since the frame is actually riveted together, it was designed to , which was OK then, but that's not current technology. I looked at some aftermarket frames like Paul Newman's and the Art Morrison frame, which are really nice products, but I just couldn't see spending 14k or so, by the time you get everything you need.
All that aside, doing the brakes, A-arms, power steering and whatnot will cost you 4K or so on the stock suspension. I picked up low mileage C4 front and rear suspensions complete for $1400 total. This gives you the springs, the big disk brakes and the whole deal. It's all aluminum and magnesium so you'll be taking some unsprung weight off the car too. The really cool part is that stock Corvette wheels and tires will fit in the wheelwells with no mods whatsoever. The C4 stuff is less than an inch wider than the stock suspension. And it just seemed fitting to me to have an LS1 on top of some suspension that could actually take a corner. This conversion also lowers the car about 5 inches in the back and 6 inches in the front for a nice stance. Also, when I hit the shows, the cool factor will be off the scale. Every show I've been to, the guys all have 350's, maybe a 4 speed or a T700R4, and stock suspension.
Hope I haven't bored you to death. Before I forget, I urge you to check out the modified forum on Chevytalk, and if you like my car you just have to check out Chevynut's site at www.picturetrail.com/chevynut. The stuff this guy does after work in his backyard shop defies description. I guarantee that his '56 Nomad will be in the mags upon completion.
Paul
www.picturetrail.com/t0neking
Originally Posted by ls14me
Just checked out your website! awesome car you are building! Are you doing all the fabrication by yourself? Where did you get that front clip? I am trying to decide if I should replace my entire front clip, or just modify it. Thanks, Armen
The clip was made for me by a guy who hangs out on www.Chevytalk.com who goes by the handle of Chevynut. He built a frame jig from some original Chevy drawings so that this stuff will come out right. He cut down a C4 cradle to make the front clip with. The rear suspension is actually pretty easy. It's just a 10 or so brackets to locate it, and some heavy wall tubing to mount the dog bones with. The whole front clip is TIG-welded and frankly, my welding pales in comparison to the job he did.
Here is my thought process on the front clip. When I bought this car, the previous owner had it for 28 years, and it was a drag car previous to that. In all that time, none of the suspension pieces had been changed from the factory, and the car drove and handled accordingly. I looked at all my options, and the big thing was that massive crossmember that these cars have. I mean you can put disc brakes, power steering, tubular a-arms, and sway bars on these things, but in the end you are still dealing with almost 50 year old suspension geometry. Also, since the frame is actually riveted together, it was designed to , which was OK then, but that's not current technology. I looked at some aftermarket frames like Paul Newman's and the Art Morrison frame, which are really nice products, but I just couldn't see spending 14k or so, by the time you get everything you need.
All that aside, doing the brakes, A-arms, power steering and whatnot will cost you 4K or so on the stock suspension. I picked up low mileage C4 front and rear suspensions complete for $1400 total. This gives you the springs, the big disk brakes and the whole deal. It's all aluminum and magnesium so you'll be taking some unsprung weight off the car too. The really cool part is that stock Corvette wheels and tires will fit in the wheelwells with no mods whatsoever. The C4 stuff is less than an inch wider than the stock suspension. And it just seemed fitting to me to have an LS1 on top of some suspension that could actually take a corner. This conversion also lowers the car about 5 inches in the back and 6 inches in the front for a nice stance. Also, when I hit the shows, the cool factor will be off the scale. Every show I've been to, the guys all have 350's, maybe a 4 speed or a T700R4, and stock suspension.
Hope I haven't bored you to death. Before I forget, I urge you to check out the modified forum on Chevytalk, and if you like my car you just have to check out Chevynut's site at www.picturetrail.com/chevynut. The stuff this guy does after work in his backyard shop defies description. I guarantee that his '56 Nomad will be in the mags upon completion.
Paul
www.picturetrail.com/t0neking
08-19-2004, 09:41 PM
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If you don't mind me asking, what was your total investment to actually have that front suspension setup sitting under your car? (all the nickel and dime stuff) I am having the hardest time deciding which way to go, I have the bare frame sitting in front of me, and have been leaning towards a unisteer r+p kit, tub a-arms, and I already have disc brakes in the front. Was it pretty hard installing that front clip? Thanks for your help. Armen
08-20-2004, 12:00 AM
#25
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That C4 suspension setup looks really nice. My dad decided on a Paul Newman frame conversion about 3 years ago. We got it back and the work was absolutley beautiful, but I know it is probably waay more expensive than the route you took with subframe and brackets.
We are running a LS1/4L60E in our conversion, but have since stalled after getting the fuel system and wiring done enough to fire it up. Too many other projects arond to work on. Plus we have to decide on a body for it too.
I hope you all have lots of fun with your 55's.
We are running a LS1/4L60E in our conversion, but have since stalled after getting the fuel system and wiring done enough to fire it up. Too many other projects arond to work on. Plus we have to decide on a body for it too.
I hope you all have lots of fun with your 55's.
08-20-2004, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 55LS1
If you don't mind me asking, what was your total investment to actually have that front suspension setup sitting under your car? (all the nickel and dime stuff) I am having the hardest time deciding which way to go, I have the bare frame sitting in front of me, and have been leaning towards a unisteer r+p kit, tub a-arms, and I already have disc brakes in the front. Was it pretty hard installing that front clip? Thanks for your help. Armen
Let's see. I had put disc brakes on the original suspension, but sold that setup fo $600 before I started. I have $700 in the complete C4 front suspension, and I paid right around $3000 for everything I needed to install the front and rear suspensions. Since the front clip was the majority of the expense, lets say about $2300 plus the $700 should be close.
Trust me when I tell you that the front clip installation was WAY easier than the rear. The rear wasn't hard, but it was aggravating with the body on the chassis. What I did for the front was to level the car on jackstands, then I took a plumb bob and dropped it from the front most bumper mount holes on the left and right sides of the car, and the center of the core support mount. I took a sharpie and made reference marks on the floor. I also measured the height of the front of the frame from the floor. After I cut the frame off, I made a simple stand for the clip out of angle iron with adjustable feet on the bottom. You can see this in my pics. Then I put the stand on the clip and mocked it up in place. I cut the frame a little bit long, and I just trimmed it a bit at a time on either side until my reference points lined up exactly. Then, I tacked it, double checked my measurements, then welded it up. I'd say it took me about a long weekend to do it to my satisfaction.
With regard to your other questions, the C4 kit gives me 13" disc brakes and a power rack, so PDB and PS is a given. Since I also live in NC with the notorious East Coast humidity, I am definitely going with a Vintage Air setup as well.
Now I just need to find some time to work on it. They are forecasting rain all weekend, so it sounds like a perfect opportunity to me!
Paul
www.picturetrail.com/t0neking
08-20-2004, 09:22 AM
#27
Yep, that setup makes me want to put my tools away but since I have 5K invested in the motor, tranny, harness, pcm, gas tank, radiator, fans, oil pan, brackets......, I better get busy and put it back together. Or maybe I need to bail out and send it all to ebay. .....
09-04-2004, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ls14me
Armen:
Let's see. I had put disc brakes on the original suspension, but sold that setup fo $600 before I started. I have $700 in the complete C4 front suspension, and I paid right around $3000 for everything I needed to install the front and rear suspensions. Since the front clip was the majority of the expense, lets say about $2300 plus the $700 should be close.
Trust me when I tell you that the front clip installation was WAY easier than the rear. The rear wasn't hard, but it was aggravating with the body on the chassis. What I did for the front was to level the car on jackstands, then I took a plumb bob and dropped it from the front most bumper mount holes on the left and right sides of the car, and the center of the core support mount. I took a sharpie and made reference marks on the floor. I also measured the height of the front of the frame from the floor. After I cut the frame off, I made a simple stand for the clip out of angle iron with adjustable feet on the bottom. You can see this in my pics. Then I put the stand on the clip and mocked it up in place. I cut the frame a little bit long, and I just trimmed it a bit at a time on either side until my reference points lined up exactly. Then, I tacked it, double checked my measurements, then welded it up. I'd say it took me about a long weekend to do it to my satisfaction.
With regard to your other questions, the C4 kit gives me 13" disc brakes and a power rack, so PDB and PS is a given. Since I also live in NC with the notorious East Coast humidity, I am definitely going with a Vintage Air setup as well.
Now I just need to find some time to work on it. They are forecasting rain all weekend, so it sounds like a perfect opportunity to me!
Paul
www.picturetrail.com/t0neking
Let's see. I had put disc brakes on the original suspension, but sold that setup fo $600 before I started. I have $700 in the complete C4 front suspension, and I paid right around $3000 for everything I needed to install the front and rear suspensions. Since the front clip was the majority of the expense, lets say about $2300 plus the $700 should be close.
Trust me when I tell you that the front clip installation was WAY easier than the rear. The rear wasn't hard, but it was aggravating with the body on the chassis. What I did for the front was to level the car on jackstands, then I took a plumb bob and dropped it from the front most bumper mount holes on the left and right sides of the car, and the center of the core support mount. I took a sharpie and made reference marks on the floor. I also measured the height of the front of the frame from the floor. After I cut the frame off, I made a simple stand for the clip out of angle iron with adjustable feet on the bottom. You can see this in my pics. Then I put the stand on the clip and mocked it up in place. I cut the frame a little bit long, and I just trimmed it a bit at a time on either side until my reference points lined up exactly. Then, I tacked it, double checked my measurements, then welded it up. I'd say it took me about a long weekend to do it to my satisfaction.
With regard to your other questions, the C4 kit gives me 13" disc brakes and a power rack, so PDB and PS is a given. Since I also live in NC with the notorious East Coast humidity, I am definitely going with a Vintage Air setup as well.
Now I just need to find some time to work on it. They are forecasting rain all weekend, so it sounds like a perfect opportunity to me!
Paul
www.picturetrail.com/t0neking
I am at the point where I need to mount the factory hydraulics, so you said to use the original hole where the clutch rod went through? If I use that hole, I will have to weld a stud to the bracket, not the actual clutch pedal itself. Anyone doing a LS1/M6 in a tri-5 help me out!
