Story of our LS1 swap into 67 Camaro
03-27-2007, 09:41 PM
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Story of our LS1 swap into 67 Camaro [EDIT: There have been minor changes along the way, so please check the latest progres before you order any parts based on what we are using. We are happy to be able to share this project, and the advise from people on this board has been invaluable to this project. Thank you!]
[Long promised spreadsheet can be found here...
http://hosted.filefront.com/67rsss scroll down...
There are a few docs that may be helpful to some people to be found there as well.
More info can also be found at www.fquick.com/67RSSS ]
We are going to fully document this build, including costs and sources (which we will share after we get this thing running). This is where we are so far.... Nothing fancy here, just want it to move under fuel injected power before we worry about fancy things. Have been taking pics of the teardown, and will build up a reasonable document to cover the swap. Looking for advice, and experience from any who wish to share. There are a few things that we could have done cheaper, but we both work, have 2 teenage daughters, and find that we have more money than time for this project. A lot of Kudos to Tom at Street and Performance for his advice and patience. While they may not be the cheapest vendor for this swap, they have done more than anyone for us. This car is a (poorly done) clone we bought for a very reasonable price last year with the intention of modernizing. We want it to still look like a 67 RS/SS from 10 feet, but thats about it. Modern convenience every step of the way after that. We added power brakes and power steering (quick ratio), and rebuilt the shifter, clutch, and top-end. It is fun, but not as much fun as it could be. The car has a T-10 from a 62 Corvette in it (spend a few days figuring which clutch is best for that application!), and is awesome fun around town, not so much on the freeway. Here is the very first entry in the journal..... (modified to make sense to everyone else)
P.S. How do we post pictures????
__________________________________________________ _______________
LS1 Swap Notes 27Mar07, 67 RS/SS Camaro
[My wifes] car really needs a power upgrade, the 350 is tired, and the T10 that is in it just isn't cut out for freeway speeds. Over the last few days, we have been burning up some credit, and gotten several things on order to fix this little problem. We bought an 02 LS1 and T56 out of a WS6 Trans-Am. And after a bit of research, started ordering everything we know we need yesterday and today.
First Concern, getting it to fit into the car.
LS1 mount adapters from Street and Performance in Arkansas (S&P).
T-56 Crossmember from S&P
Modified LS1 oilpan from S&P
Clutch Master cylinder mount plate from S&P
6 cyl. accelerator pedal assy from 67 Camaro of Ebay
Lokar throttle cable and clamp (single) from S&P
Power steering fitting adapters from S&P
(5/8 flare to -6AN and 11/16 inv flare to -6an)
We will source new P/S hoses locally
It's a console car, so unfortunately,
McLoud shifter relocate for T56, 2 3/8 inch forward from S&P
(EXPENSIVE)
Next concern, fuel delivery. Decided that we would never want to mess with it again. Decided not to risk starvation over a few hundred dollars.
Full stainless steel EFI tank with pump and 90 Ohm sender from Rock Valley
99 Corvette Regulator and Filter kit from S&P
Braided under cover fuel line from S&P (From fuel rail to frame rail)
Will source feed and return lines locally.
Spent gases are a concern, and we didn't want to have to redo the headers every year like with painted headers.
Thermo coated set of swap headers from S&P
Still considering the Flowmaster American Thunder header back system.
Cooling concerns are a bit easier so far, we bought the radiator and fans from the donor car. Have not worried about hoses yet.
Adjustable thermostat control harness and probe from S&P
Needed to get air into the engine.
LS1 air-cleaner, filter and back plate from S&P
New screw in IAT from S&P
EGR Block off plate from S&P
Gauge connections are still TBD. We may tap the coolant sensor into the passenger head, or into the pump when we tap the steam line into the pump. The car is getting new gauges, so have not decided what sender will be needed for the oil pressure. Both adapters will be from S&P or local source. For Speedo, still deciding between the tailshaft housing mods or the Cable-X.
Not using A/C so will just remove it and then acc. will fit the car. Got the trans yoke with the motor, so will have a new driveshaft built locally. Don't have the harness yet, but will be sending it to Speartech for rework. Engine came with a free computer reprogram so removed Emissions, VAT, SkipShift, and Fans (using S&P stand alone fan harness). Also ordered an Iditit steering column, Grant wheel, new shocks, subframe connectors and traction bars. Decided it was time that we also add seatbelts to the car, and went with a full kit from the Hot Rod Factory (8 miles from here). Since everything is off, also decided it was a good time to replace the lower door hinges, already done, what a difference.
[Long promised spreadsheet can be found here...
http://hosted.filefront.com/67rsss scroll down...
There are a few docs that may be helpful to some people to be found there as well.
More info can also be found at www.fquick.com/67RSSS ]
We are going to fully document this build, including costs and sources (which we will share after we get this thing running). This is where we are so far.... Nothing fancy here, just want it to move under fuel injected power before we worry about fancy things. Have been taking pics of the teardown, and will build up a reasonable document to cover the swap. Looking for advice, and experience from any who wish to share. There are a few things that we could have done cheaper, but we both work, have 2 teenage daughters, and find that we have more money than time for this project. A lot of Kudos to Tom at Street and Performance for his advice and patience. While they may not be the cheapest vendor for this swap, they have done more than anyone for us. This car is a (poorly done) clone we bought for a very reasonable price last year with the intention of modernizing. We want it to still look like a 67 RS/SS from 10 feet, but thats about it. Modern convenience every step of the way after that. We added power brakes and power steering (quick ratio), and rebuilt the shifter, clutch, and top-end. It is fun, but not as much fun as it could be. The car has a T-10 from a 62 Corvette in it (spend a few days figuring which clutch is best for that application!), and is awesome fun around town, not so much on the freeway. Here is the very first entry in the journal..... (modified to make sense to everyone else)
P.S. How do we post pictures????
__________________________________________________ _______________
LS1 Swap Notes 27Mar07, 67 RS/SS Camaro
[My wifes] car really needs a power upgrade, the 350 is tired, and the T10 that is in it just isn't cut out for freeway speeds. Over the last few days, we have been burning up some credit, and gotten several things on order to fix this little problem. We bought an 02 LS1 and T56 out of a WS6 Trans-Am. And after a bit of research, started ordering everything we know we need yesterday and today.
First Concern, getting it to fit into the car.
LS1 mount adapters from Street and Performance in Arkansas (S&P).
T-56 Crossmember from S&P
Modified LS1 oilpan from S&P
Clutch Master cylinder mount plate from S&P
6 cyl. accelerator pedal assy from 67 Camaro of Ebay
Lokar throttle cable and clamp (single) from S&P
Power steering fitting adapters from S&P
(5/8 flare to -6AN and 11/16 inv flare to -6an)
We will source new P/S hoses locally
It's a console car, so unfortunately,
McLoud shifter relocate for T56, 2 3/8 inch forward from S&P
(EXPENSIVE)
Next concern, fuel delivery. Decided that we would never want to mess with it again. Decided not to risk starvation over a few hundred dollars.
Full stainless steel EFI tank with pump and 90 Ohm sender from Rock Valley
99 Corvette Regulator and Filter kit from S&P
Braided under cover fuel line from S&P (From fuel rail to frame rail)
Will source feed and return lines locally.
Spent gases are a concern, and we didn't want to have to redo the headers every year like with painted headers.
Thermo coated set of swap headers from S&P
Still considering the Flowmaster American Thunder header back system.
Cooling concerns are a bit easier so far, we bought the radiator and fans from the donor car. Have not worried about hoses yet.
Adjustable thermostat control harness and probe from S&P
Needed to get air into the engine.
LS1 air-cleaner, filter and back plate from S&P
New screw in IAT from S&P
EGR Block off plate from S&P
Gauge connections are still TBD. We may tap the coolant sensor into the passenger head, or into the pump when we tap the steam line into the pump. The car is getting new gauges, so have not decided what sender will be needed for the oil pressure. Both adapters will be from S&P or local source. For Speedo, still deciding between the tailshaft housing mods or the Cable-X.
Not using A/C so will just remove it and then acc. will fit the car. Got the trans yoke with the motor, so will have a new driveshaft built locally. Don't have the harness yet, but will be sending it to Speartech for rework. Engine came with a free computer reprogram so removed Emissions, VAT, SkipShift, and Fans (using S&P stand alone fan harness). Also ordered an Iditit steering column, Grant wheel, new shocks, subframe connectors and traction bars. Decided it was time that we also add seatbelts to the car, and went with a full kit from the Hot Rod Factory (8 miles from here). Since everything is off, also decided it was a good time to replace the lower door hinges, already done, what a difference.
Last edited by 67rsss; 12-17-2007 at 11:11 AM.
04-03-2007, 11:45 AM
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Next bit in the diary, not much done, waiting for parts....
____________________________
3APR07
Got the shocks, subframe connectors and traction bars in this weekend. Put the car back together for now. Repaired both lower door hinges. Replaced a ton of body bolts. Finally have a schematic together of how I am going to operate the headlight doors (better than factory setup). Need new leaf springs, discoverd pass. side spring is twisted. Made getting the subframe connectors in a very frustrating job. Ordered wedge plates to set the slappers at a better angle, too much contact to soon, really hits hard. Only about 1 inch of snubber right now, would like to see at least 2 inches.
Ordered the Cable-X today, seems like a better solution knowing that we are going to change the tire size and rear end gear at a later date. Most likely going to 3.42 in the rear (factory setup for the donor car). Have the temp sender and oil pressure worked out, will make mods when the motor gets here. Pretty much know how we want to run the fuel system also. Going to roughly follow the stock routing, but place the regulator on the rear subframe rail over the pass side axle.
Got the new Ididit tilt column and grant sig. series wheel installed. The grant adapter was really hokey, so sent it back and got the billet adapter from Ididit. It looks great and work awesome. The black mahogony on the wheel feels really nice and looks great. It is amazing what a difference tight bearings in the column make! The new rag joint wasn't fun to install, but we got it. Found slight shimmy at speed, think the driver front wheel bearing may be going...
Ordered hoses from Summit for the radiator. Talked with John at Speartech, and lead time for harness rework is 3weeks, not bad. Includes a fuse block and fuel pump relay setup.
Ordered a new set of seatbelts, and all the parts we need to make my version of the RS headlight assembly work. Also doing headlight relay conversion while we are in there. Started scouting the engine bay for suitable location for PCM and relays/fuses, thinking about area in the fenderwell behind driver headlight. Also thinking about building a plate over the fenderwell similiar to the OEM setup in truck. Cable length may dictate.
Looking at connectors to use, and have pretty much decided to use the Weatherpack connectors. GM likes them, they are inexpensive, water tight, and you can easliy index them.
____________________________
3APR07
Got the shocks, subframe connectors and traction bars in this weekend. Put the car back together for now. Repaired both lower door hinges. Replaced a ton of body bolts. Finally have a schematic together of how I am going to operate the headlight doors (better than factory setup). Need new leaf springs, discoverd pass. side spring is twisted. Made getting the subframe connectors in a very frustrating job. Ordered wedge plates to set the slappers at a better angle, too much contact to soon, really hits hard. Only about 1 inch of snubber right now, would like to see at least 2 inches.
Ordered the Cable-X today, seems like a better solution knowing that we are going to change the tire size and rear end gear at a later date. Most likely going to 3.42 in the rear (factory setup for the donor car). Have the temp sender and oil pressure worked out, will make mods when the motor gets here. Pretty much know how we want to run the fuel system also. Going to roughly follow the stock routing, but place the regulator on the rear subframe rail over the pass side axle.
Got the new Ididit tilt column and grant sig. series wheel installed. The grant adapter was really hokey, so sent it back and got the billet adapter from Ididit. It looks great and work awesome. The black mahogony on the wheel feels really nice and looks great. It is amazing what a difference tight bearings in the column make! The new rag joint wasn't fun to install, but we got it. Found slight shimmy at speed, think the driver front wheel bearing may be going...
Ordered hoses from Summit for the radiator. Talked with John at Speartech, and lead time for harness rework is 3weeks, not bad. Includes a fuse block and fuel pump relay setup.
Ordered a new set of seatbelts, and all the parts we need to make my version of the RS headlight assembly work. Also doing headlight relay conversion while we are in there. Started scouting the engine bay for suitable location for PCM and relays/fuses, thinking about area in the fenderwell behind driver headlight. Also thinking about building a plate over the fenderwell similiar to the OEM setup in truck. Cable length may dictate.
Looking at connectors to use, and have pretty much decided to use the Weatherpack connectors. GM likes them, they are inexpensive, water tight, and you can easliy index them.
04-03-2007, 01:51 PM
#6
Cool, Its always nice when people fully document their swap.
As for posting pictures there are a few ways.
1. If it is a small picture you can attach it directly to the thread by clicking the "manage attachments" button in the additional options window directly under the reply window. Then just select the picture that you want to upload it and it will be attached.
2. For larger pictures you can upload them to photobucket or one of the other image hosting sites and then link them. Click the "insert image" button directly over the reply screen and insert the address of the image.
3. You can also get a www.fquick.com account and put the images up there, then link them just like if you had them at photobucket, but you will also be able to always find the images at fquick and post your swap story there.
As for posting pictures there are a few ways.
1. If it is a small picture you can attach it directly to the thread by clicking the "manage attachments" button in the additional options window directly under the reply window. Then just select the picture that you want to upload it and it will be attached.
2. For larger pictures you can upload them to photobucket or one of the other image hosting sites and then link them. Click the "insert image" button directly over the reply screen and insert the address of the image.
3. You can also get a www.fquick.com account and put the images up there, then link them just like if you had them at photobucket, but you will also be able to always find the images at fquick and post your swap story there.
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04-03-2007, 03:29 PM
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Okay, have an fquick account and put 10 pics on it. Now I just need to get them on here.... I will put one to try it out. Which is best to use for posting; URL, Embed, or Forum links given????
Answer: The Forum links work the best!
Answer: The Forum links work the best!
Last edited by 67rsss; 04-04-2007 at 10:25 AM.
04-03-2007, 03:29 PM
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Got the fender off....
And the inners....
[EDIT: We have tried taking F body fenders off with and without the inner wheelhouses, and it is WAY easier to do it with the inners attached to the fender. Loosen the bolts holding the Inner and Fender together so it will move a little, and the whole thing comes off easy.]
And the inners....
[EDIT: We have tried taking F body fenders off with and without the inner wheelhouses, and it is WAY easier to do it with the inners attached to the fender. Loosen the bolts holding the Inner and Fender together so it will move a little, and the whole thing comes off easy.]
Last edited by 67rsss; 04-30-2007 at 10:25 AM. Reason: More information....
04-03-2007, 03:34 PM
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Here is the new console just sitting in the car (safest place for it), note there is no steering column in this pic....
New ragjoint from Ididit...
New column in, was shiny, but she likes the semi-flat black...
New grant signature series wheel (black mahogany) with an SS button. Don't use the grant adapter, it is cheesy. This is the chrome billet adapter fro Ididit...
and it now has a tilt steering column!
Less htan 2 hours of putzing. Absolutely worth it.
New ragjoint from Ididit...
New column in, was shiny, but she likes the semi-flat black...
New grant signature series wheel (black mahogany) with an SS button. Don't use the grant adapter, it is cheesy. This is the chrome billet adapter fro Ididit...
and it now has a tilt steering column!
Less htan 2 hours of putzing. Absolutely worth it.
04-03-2007, 03:36 PM
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Adding the traction bars, they are coming back out as we are now changing the springs too...
Doing a bit of painting....
I will try to get more pics up soon, I setup the fquick account as 67RSSS.
Doing a bit of painting....
I will try to get more pics up soon, I setup the fquick account as 67RSSS.
04-03-2007, 04:09 PM
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And for anyone that is interested, here is the schematic I drew for the headlight relays and headlight door setup that I am changing. It works similiar to the original.
04-04-2007, 09:32 AM
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There are a lot of little things that need done to this one, and we are not happy with the interior or exterior colors. Those change easy enough. The car was built quick by someone in the past, but was complete, and has NO rust, anywhere, ever. On the upside, except for the change over to the 4speed and a tape deck, it was never cut up in the past. I am sure you noted that my wife LOVES semi-flat black. The entire engine bay will be done in either semi-flat, natural aluminum, natural cast iron, and eventually a few body color accents. 
Question for swappers:
We spent a bit of time this weekend looking for a new battery to use in this swap, we wanted to keep the group 24 look, but still wanted to at least have the 700CCA that the donor was spec'ed at (02 Trans Am). We chose a battery from NAPA that is a group 24, and has 680CCA at 0deg F, and 780CCA at room temp. Is this sufficient to keep everything working well in the new charging system????
Question for swappers:
We spent a bit of time this weekend looking for a new battery to use in this swap, we wanted to keep the group 24 look, but still wanted to at least have the 700CCA that the donor was spec'ed at (02 Trans Am). We chose a battery from NAPA that is a group 24, and has 680CCA at 0deg F, and 780CCA at room temp. Is this sufficient to keep everything working well in the new charging system????
Last edited by 67rsss; 04-04-2007 at 10:05 AM.
04-04-2007, 10:15 AM
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Update:
Expect motor and trans early next week!!! Parts are starting to roll in, and it looks like we will be starting the actual swap in a few weekends. As you can see above, we need to clean the garage up a bit before anymore parts arrive. The fuel tank and headers are several weeks out yet, but we can do a lot without them! We will keep this thread posted for any that are interested. We really want to have everything running nicely by CarCraft Nationals this year (20-22 July) so expect to see constant progress....
Expect motor and trans early next week!!! Parts are starting to roll in, and it looks like we will be starting the actual swap in a few weekends. As you can see above, we need to clean the garage up a bit before anymore parts arrive. The fuel tank and headers are several weeks out yet, but we can do a lot without them! We will keep this thread posted for any that are interested. We really want to have everything running nicely by CarCraft Nationals this year (20-22 July) so expect to see constant progress....
04-04-2007, 10:17 AM
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Mod: is it possible to rename this thread "Our LS1 swap into 67 Camaro"?
Thanks for changing the title!!!!!
Thanks for changing the title!!!!!
Last edited by 67rsss; 04-07-2007 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Thank the moderator!
04-04-2007, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 67rsss
Question for swappers:
We spent a bit of time this weekend looking for a new battery to use in this swap, we wanted to keep the group 24 look, but still wanted to at least have the 700CCA that the donor was spec'ed at (02 Trans Am). We chose a battery from NAPA that is a group 24, and has 680CCA at 0deg F, and 780CCA at room temp. Is this sufficient to keep everything working well in the new charging system????
We spent a bit of time this weekend looking for a new battery to use in this swap, we wanted to keep the group 24 look, but still wanted to at least have the 700CCA that the donor was spec'ed at (02 Trans Am). We chose a battery from NAPA that is a group 24, and has 680CCA at 0deg F, and 780CCA at room temp. Is this sufficient to keep everything working well in the new charging system????
04-06-2007, 09:31 AM
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Okay, here is the next entry.....
__________________________________________________
Just got the call from the shipper, and the Engine, trans, and radiator will be here at 10am on Monday!!!!! Have been working hard at figuring out exactly what we need and how we want to route all the fluids. Have the cooling, fuel, and power steering pretty much figured out, just a few fitting I need to measure once parts get here. Waiting anxiously for all the parts I need to convert the headlights and headlight doors to a more modern relay system. Going to tuck it all back behind the washer fluid jar location. Got the wedge plates and new snubbers in, but still waiting for the springs. Got the new mirrors from Goodmark, the quality and appearance is excellent. Hard to find the correct mirror without the bowtie. Have every gauge connection worked out except for the tach, but it looks like we just need to make a programming change in the PCM to get the correct pulse rate. HP Tuners is what everyone reccomends, but boy is it pricey! The tension and excitement are definately building! We are going to take it easy this weekend and just clean up and reorganize the garage for this project. Going to want as much shelf space as possible, would hate to loose a box or a fitting or anything. Already starting to get a rather large pile of boxes on the floor of the little bay. Still thinking about how I would go about changing the ammeter in the gauge cluster to a voltmeter and still keep the factory look. Really starting to think about building up a little interface module with a Pic and a DMM chip. I need to figure a reliable method of running the sweep.
Everything except the headers has shipped from S&P, the Cable-X should be here next week also. Getting shippments from Summit almost every day. Everything at the HotRod Factory should be in next week, can't wait!
Check the fquick site ( http://www.fquick.com/67RSSS )for drawings of the headlight conversion, fluid systems, and eventually the wiring of the whole motor (that one will be several pages, and several weeks from now)
__________________________________________________
Just got the call from the shipper, and the Engine, trans, and radiator will be here at 10am on Monday!!!!! Have been working hard at figuring out exactly what we need and how we want to route all the fluids. Have the cooling, fuel, and power steering pretty much figured out, just a few fitting I need to measure once parts get here. Waiting anxiously for all the parts I need to convert the headlights and headlight doors to a more modern relay system. Going to tuck it all back behind the washer fluid jar location. Got the wedge plates and new snubbers in, but still waiting for the springs. Got the new mirrors from Goodmark, the quality and appearance is excellent. Hard to find the correct mirror without the bowtie. Have every gauge connection worked out except for the tach, but it looks like we just need to make a programming change in the PCM to get the correct pulse rate. HP Tuners is what everyone reccomends, but boy is it pricey! The tension and excitement are definately building! We are going to take it easy this weekend and just clean up and reorganize the garage for this project. Going to want as much shelf space as possible, would hate to loose a box or a fitting or anything. Already starting to get a rather large pile of boxes on the floor of the little bay. Still thinking about how I would go about changing the ammeter in the gauge cluster to a voltmeter and still keep the factory look. Really starting to think about building up a little interface module with a Pic and a DMM chip. I need to figure a reliable method of running the sweep.
Everything except the headers has shipped from S&P, the Cable-X should be here next week also. Getting shippments from Summit almost every day. Everything at the HotRod Factory should be in next week, can't wait!
Check the fquick site ( http://www.fquick.com/67RSSS )for drawings of the headlight conversion, fluid systems, and eventually the wiring of the whole motor (that one will be several pages, and several weeks from now)
04-06-2007, 01:13 PM
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The stuff from S&P just arrived. They may be expensive, but this stuff looks really nice!!!!!
Very impressed with the quality of the work they did, and overall, after a little looking, most of their products are not that bad in price. Some of the little things are overpriced. Very impressed with the aircleaner assembly for attaching the MAF right to the TB and air cleaner. Nicely done, though when we paint the car, the front plate will get blasted, filled, and painted body color.
Now that we have seen the hose we bought for the fuel rail to frame, we will built that ourselves next time. Still happy with the regulator kit.
The crossmember is top notch. Very hapy with it.
The adjustable fan relay probe kit is no different than youwould get anywhere else, kinda hokey, but actually cheaper than a lot of other kits.
The pan is very nice.
The mount plates and hydraulic clutch adapter plate are much heftier than we expected. Absolutely first rate.
Can't wait to see the headers.
The DVD they sent, while no hollywood knockout, was actually pretty informative, and had a lot of great advice in it. Several Camaro projects.
We will do business with S&P in the future. High quality, fast shipping, and a they have been very willing to discuss everything with us.
Very impressed with the quality of the work they did, and overall, after a little looking, most of their products are not that bad in price. Some of the little things are overpriced. Very impressed with the aircleaner assembly for attaching the MAF right to the TB and air cleaner. Nicely done, though when we paint the car, the front plate will get blasted, filled, and painted body color.
Now that we have seen the hose we bought for the fuel rail to frame, we will built that ourselves next time. Still happy with the regulator kit.
The crossmember is top notch. Very hapy with it.
The adjustable fan relay probe kit is no different than youwould get anywhere else, kinda hokey, but actually cheaper than a lot of other kits.
The pan is very nice.
The mount plates and hydraulic clutch adapter plate are much heftier than we expected. Absolutely first rate.
Can't wait to see the headers.
The DVD they sent, while no hollywood knockout, was actually pretty informative, and had a lot of great advice in it. Several Camaro projects.
We will do business with S&P in the future. High quality, fast shipping, and a they have been very willing to discuss everything with us.
Last edited by 67rsss; 04-07-2007 at 09:42 PM. Reason: More detail after inspection.
04-07-2007, 01:54 AM
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Compared to the cost of an aftermarket PCM, HPTuners is pretty cheap. If you want to go cheaper, you can send your PCM off to someone and have them program it for you. But chances are you'll forget something, or want to tweak something. And if you ever have any engine problems, you're going to need a scan tool, and you'll drop at least $200 on that.