garys 68

iTrader: (1)

I keep looking for a good deal on ebay for used LS motors. The prices seem really high when I can get a new LS1 for around $5K and LS2 for around $6K. GM offers a plug and play harness aimed at swaps for $800. So all I would need is the flywheel/clutch, which I would be replacing anyway, alternator/mount, idler and tensioner assembly, and starter.
What am I missing when ebay prices for LS2s are around $6K?

rao

iTrader: (18)

Those little extras add up to a lot.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Coilpacks are pricey, you will need all acc. (PS, water pump, AC, alternator, idlers, brackets, bolts, tensioner), sensors (LOTS of them!), harness, starter, computer, intake and TB, thermostat and housing, possibly EGR and Evap stuff (depends on laws where you live). I am sure there is more that I don't recall. Look closely at what you are getting on a new motor, and make sure the costs are acceptable when you fill in the missing bits. If it hits your budget, new is awesome.

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

Those prices include fuel rails/injectors, intake, TB, coils, exhaust manifolds, water pump, etc. Some sensors (O2) are included in the $800 GM harness/computer/DBW pedal package. I've heard cam and crank sensors come with the engine.
It's going in a 68 vette, so I dont need a lot of the other stuff (no AC, no PS, no emmisions).
I've checked SD, Jegs, Summit, and a few crate engine selleres, they all have the complete engine at similar prices.
I think for my needs, a new one might be the way to go.
And if I add the cost of a Speartech harness conversion and computer reprogram, it makes buying new look even better.
Anything I'm overlooking anything???????

rao

iTrader: (18)

Price out front accessory prices before you make your decision.

andrew69_04

iTrader: (148)

Sent You A Pm

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

Already started a list from the FAQ:
Starter -92169668 -$280.22
Pulley, Top Idler -12557335 -$31.73
Drive Belt Tensioner -92111701 -$37.64
Drive Belt Tensioner Bolt -92138257 -$8.50
Drive Belt Idler Pulley -12563326 -$36.68
LS1 Alternator bracket -12563327 -$15.66
Flywheel clutch (Advance Auto)-~300
Alternator (Advance Auto) -~120
And actually, I may not be able to use the F body low alternator mount in my vette with the setback engine mounts, so I may have to use vette or a modified alternator mount anyway.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

I highly reccomend you skip the auto parts store clutch setup and get the LS2 flywheel and LS7 clutch. A few penies more (we padi $570 shipped with pilot, new bolts, and new slave) at SDPC is worth it. Don't overlook buying used accesories at your local junk yard as well. Brackets can get a lot cheaper that way. The starter unfortunately is pricey. There are several versions depending on application, and they are just expensive. It looks like you are getting real close to justifying a new engine, good for you! It looks like the math works out, particularly on the things you where going to replace anyway (Clutch, tensioners, belts, O2 sensors, Etc). I do not see the MAF on your list, is it included with the harness you are looking at? They are expensive.

Schitzo

iTrader: (6)

trust me you do not want to piece you engine together. buy as complete as possible.You can get a complete decent mile LS1 with trans for 4K or less.Dont limit your searches to eBay only

Rodder

iTrader: (2)

How cost effective the crate engine is compared to a used engine completely depends on how much stuff you'd use off the used engine. If you are going to swap the intake, accessories, oil pan, etc that stuff adds up. From what I've seen, Ebay prices on LS1 and LS2 are going for a premium due to high demand. You may have better luck on craigslist or local yards.

the.erinyes

iTrader: (3)

Piecing it together is more expensive than you first think. I did it that way, since I did not want a LS1 stock setup. I have a detailed spreadsheet of my costs to date. Email me if you would like a copy.

rx7 22

I have a rebuilt LS1 with the computer and ALL accessories. $3500

Stu Cool

iTrader: (13)

Check for sure, but most EBay LS1 and LS2 drop out sales include a transmission too. Add the cost of a tranny to the 5-6k crate motor and the price jumps up there.

Also consider the 6.0 truck/SUV motors. They are only about 80 pounds heavier.

Pat

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the input.
As was pointed out here. I only need an alternator on the front, and that may need to be relocated with an aftermarket mount anyway. So the accessories really are not an issue.
The clutch/flywheel will be new with either option.
I realize many come with a trans, but I dont want an automatic, and cant use the T56 0.5 OD 6th gear with my 3.08 differential. So I'll be running a 4 speed until I put in a Richmond or TKO. So trans is not a factor.
So the added cost of new will be a starter, alternator, wire harness/computer, and maybe a couple sensors, and a few misc items (that will probably add up to $1000).
And the cost to modify a wire harness ($400) and reprogram the computer ($200) almost completely offsets the price of the new harness/computer $(800).
Used motors come with 30 - 90 day warantee, crates with 2 years. I might not even get the motor running in 30 - 90 days.
Unless I can find a local motor under $3K, with low miles, I'm buying new.

ponti-yak

iTrader: (1)

Hey 67rsss! You seem to have some experience. What's the difference in starters? I thought you could bolt up an F-body starter to any LS series block and so long as the flywheel is compatable it would work.
By the way, I ordered a GM harness and controller from SD last week and the price has gone up about $150 already. But it does include the MAF.

Schwanke Engines

iTrader: (1)

I could do a complete package, LS2 block and heads, for $8099.99.
This is a complete engine making 485HP, ready to drop in. If you want forged it will be $900 more.

http://www.schwankeshortblocks.com/E...%20Package.htm

djquik88

iTrader: (20)

Give this a look....https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...554&highlight=

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

There appears to be some torque differences within the Gen III and Gen IV starters. When we thought we had to replace ours (make sure you add a lock washer to the ground terminal!) we began researching our best replacement. That is when we discovered that there are many part numbers that do not cross. Don't take it as gospel, but it looks like the starter differences are based on the CR of the engine. Funny thing is, the Vette starter is the easiest to find. The truck starter less easy. While I am fairly confident that you could bolt any one on and it would work (mounting ears are the same, flywheel is the same) there is the potential that a given starter would not have the required torwue for the engine. It would be interesting to hear what everyone else has found on the topic. We didn't need to buy it, but we had already decided that if we replaced the starter, the part number for the Vette was what we where going with. This concern is if you go through your LAP, I imagine a high torque aftermarket from a place like summit would exceed the needs of most engines.

Oh, and as for the 3.08 with 6th, I agree that it is a bit on the high side. At 80mph, we are idling in 6th. We are changing the rear end gearing (seems a lot cheaper than changing the gearing in the trans!)

garys 68

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I thought so too.
I would use a T56 and change to a 3.90 gear except C3 vette diffs are expensive to regear and I just went through it last year.
So I'm going the Richmond or TKO route.

67rsss

iTrader: (4)

Or only use 6th when you are going 120mph....