emergency ls3 cam swap advice!
11-17-2009, 08:19 PM
#1
emergency ls3 cam swap advice! I just got the news that the lg mtrsports g6x3 cam requires flycutting....so I'm already 2k in the hole for nothing thanks to the scumbags at lg....should I just say f it and get it done and spend a fortune on a stupid *** cam swap, put another cam in or just put the stocker back in and give up...ane does anybody have a clue on the labor for the cutting...my cars already been there a month and I'm over it ....advice please!
11-17-2009, 08:28 PM
#3
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How are you 2k in the hole? LG has sold thousands of those cams and I'm sure they know when fly cutting is necessary. Even if you mill the heads it's really easy to notch the pistons yourself with the fly cutting tool.
J
J
11-17-2009, 09:40 PM
#6
It will be cheaper to swap a different cam than cut the pistons? Ask the shop (assuming your car has been at the shop this long). Another cam will run $400 and the labor for the swap = ??
To pull the heads and notch the pistons = ??
There are a few smaller cams on CF that make the same power as G6X3's if you compare the numbers. The G6X3 has big numbers if you doctor it and it's on a 111.
Spin's 230/234
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ivability.html
as well as Charlie's RPM cam 230/236
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ts-inside.html
I would stick with the G6X3 if you can handle pulling the heads and notching the pistons $$$ but there are other options. Good luck.
The G6X3 is a badass cam as long as you have a badass tune.
To pull the heads and notch the pistons = ??
There are a few smaller cams on CF that make the same power as G6X3's if you compare the numbers. The G6X3 has big numbers if you doctor it and it's on a 111.
Spin's 230/234
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ivability.html
as well as Charlie's RPM cam 230/236
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ts-inside.html
I would stick with the G6X3 if you can handle pulling the heads and notching the pistons $$$ but there are other options. Good luck.
The G6X3 is a badass cam as long as you have a badass tune.
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11-22-2009, 06:10 PM
#13
tick performance said the clearance was around 10 which was way too close, i call lg personally and they also recomended fly cutting. My shop said sometimes the cams are off sometimes(not in those exact words haha) They also charged my 2300 for labor and parts(not including the cam)holy **** huh!1340 to instal cam and valvesprings and 340 to reinstall camshaft. They sure as hell didnt cut me any breaks, but its all good. Im just getting ron at vengeance to grind my cam and hook it up. From now on...i dont care how far i have to go to get my **** done right...especially if im going to wind up spending thousands of dollars on nothing you know...i spend a lot of money and am very loyal..somebody will take care of me....driving that stock idling vette home on the hour plus ride was the worst ride of my life...and i need a new battery....
11-23-2009, 12:39 PM
#15
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Ouch, on the cam trouble you had. Sorry about the bad info you got. Who told you no need to flycut? Anyways, glad to see you got in touch with Ron @ Vengeance. You won't have to be worried about being misinformed from now on, good luck. Please post up what you end up doing w/results.
12-16-2009, 12:19 AM
#19
I hate to dig up a dead thread, and it would probably be in our best interest to let it die. With that said, there is a ton of mis-information in here that feel I need to address.
First of all, yes the car was here for a while. We had a scheduled date to work on it and thats what we did. We sent the rockers to harland sharp to be modified which took over a week....maybe two weeks. I'm sure the customer chose to do this based on our reccomendation and knew of the downtime. This was just one of the items included on the bill. I started on the car the day I had the rockers in my hands and we discovered the cam didn't have necessary ptv maybe a day later.
I'm sure plenty of shops would have just installed it without checking ptv because word is "it should fit with stock LS3 heads". The fact is, we check EVERY cams ptv clearance. In this case, not checking would have led to bent valves or worse. It litterally had .010" of clearance on the intake. I didn't bother checking the exhaust valve clearance when I found this. Because this cam "should" fit everything was completely re-installed except for the radiator and two valve springs which I had soft springs on to do the ptv checking.
Once we found the issue with clearance, I first call LG. Im told to check valve drop with the piston at TDC which I do and then report back with numbers that are within range. So the heads/valves/headgasket isn't different from factory or an issue. The guys at LG then say they see around .020" on intake for clearance and the reccomend fly cutting for a car that is raced. Later they say it should have around .050" clearance. Either way, thats too close to run IMO. I then ask for some basics so I could degree the cam in order to make sure their isn't an issue with the advance ground in...or if its even the correct cam since they give no lobe numbers, no cam card, not even a sticker on the box. They refuse to give any specs and even go as far as telling me that they will litterally cut our entire area off from LG Motorsports products when I finally got angry and told them I would have it cam doctored.
At this point we have called the customer (redcorvette2000) and told him that the ptv was just too close to safely run. At first, we're going to install a smaller cam for the same money that we re-installed the stock cam I might add. I just don't see how we should have put the stock cam or any other cam back in it for that matter for free when we didn't sell him the cam to begin with. He chose the cam, it didn't fit, and LG wouldn't do anything about it. $340 extra to do another cam install was cutting him a break and to be honest I think we charged 3 hours to reinstall the stock cam which would have really been $240...not $340. If his bill says $340 then I guess we owe him $100 back.
After initially deciding to pick a smaller cam, the customer then calls back and says that he might rather pull the heads and flycut so we qoute the labor to do that and suggest getting some ported heads while they are off and selling the stock heads to re-coup some of the money...afterall they only had 1400 miles on them. By now, LG has totally cut us off and we don't have a flycutting tool for L92 heads/valves. Besides, thiers was already on loan with no ceartain time back and to us which would just tie our lift up for several days at the least. So in the meantime we're working up qoutes on heads w/ flycutting, qoutes for flycutting only, searching for smaller cams (which is difficult when we have zero idea what a g6x3 cam is anyway) and I'm even posting in the vendor section on here looking for a scrap L92 head to machine for our own notching tool. I lost ATLEAST half a day just searching for this or that while the customer continued to change his mind repeatedly.
There was absolutely no mis-information handed out by us and I can assure anyone that we take every precaution with every install we do. I want every customer to leave happy, but I can't let something fire up and go out the door that I feel has a good chance of blowing up. He had the opportunity to change cams, heads, etc and I was even going to invest our own money toward an L92 flycutting setup but before we even had the chance to do something good for the customer he flew off the handle, took the "screw it" attitude and said put it back to stock.
Obviously he knows we do good work, he had nothing but praise for us when we installed a cam into his C6 Z06 that worked just fine probably less than a year earlier. If he were "loyal", he would have listened to our cam reccomendations before deciding to just give up and been grateful that we saved him from a blown engine or at the least some bent valves. Instead he flys off the hook, puts the stock cam back in, and tells us to keep the LG cam because he doesn't even care...
His "****" was done right here and he should be thankful that it was. And if he had ordered a cam through us he would have got something that would have fit and if not it would have been on our dime...the price of the cam and the extra time spent swaping it for something else. A "loyal" customer would have let us make the situation right...we bent over backwards for him, only charged $240 to install a second cam and a thread like this is our thanks? If thats a loyal customer then I'm not sure we need any loyal customers.
Matt, maybe you should just take the g6x3 to vengeance and let them install it and see what they come up with. We did cam doctor it at Hendricks Motorsports...and the LSA is less than the 111 posted above. Lobe sep on every cylinder was reccorded...the top of the sheet says EZCam Version 2.1.0. You should be getting the cam back in the mail if you haven't already, we don't have any use for it and you can send it back to recoup some of the money we stole from you by actually charging you for the install that we did.
-Jonathan
First of all, yes the car was here for a while. We had a scheduled date to work on it and thats what we did. We sent the rockers to harland sharp to be modified which took over a week....maybe two weeks. I'm sure the customer chose to do this based on our reccomendation and knew of the downtime. This was just one of the items included on the bill. I started on the car the day I had the rockers in my hands and we discovered the cam didn't have necessary ptv maybe a day later.
I'm sure plenty of shops would have just installed it without checking ptv because word is "it should fit with stock LS3 heads". The fact is, we check EVERY cams ptv clearance. In this case, not checking would have led to bent valves or worse. It litterally had .010" of clearance on the intake. I didn't bother checking the exhaust valve clearance when I found this. Because this cam "should" fit everything was completely re-installed except for the radiator and two valve springs which I had soft springs on to do the ptv checking.
Once we found the issue with clearance, I first call LG. Im told to check valve drop with the piston at TDC which I do and then report back with numbers that are within range. So the heads/valves/headgasket isn't different from factory or an issue. The guys at LG then say they see around .020" on intake for clearance and the reccomend fly cutting for a car that is raced. Later they say it should have around .050" clearance. Either way, thats too close to run IMO. I then ask for some basics so I could degree the cam in order to make sure their isn't an issue with the advance ground in...or if its even the correct cam since they give no lobe numbers, no cam card, not even a sticker on the box. They refuse to give any specs and even go as far as telling me that they will litterally cut our entire area off from LG Motorsports products when I finally got angry and told them I would have it cam doctored.
At this point we have called the customer (redcorvette2000) and told him that the ptv was just too close to safely run. At first, we're going to install a smaller cam for the same money that we re-installed the stock cam I might add. I just don't see how we should have put the stock cam or any other cam back in it for that matter for free when we didn't sell him the cam to begin with. He chose the cam, it didn't fit, and LG wouldn't do anything about it. $340 extra to do another cam install was cutting him a break and to be honest I think we charged 3 hours to reinstall the stock cam which would have really been $240...not $340. If his bill says $340 then I guess we owe him $100 back.
After initially deciding to pick a smaller cam, the customer then calls back and says that he might rather pull the heads and flycut so we qoute the labor to do that and suggest getting some ported heads while they are off and selling the stock heads to re-coup some of the money...afterall they only had 1400 miles on them. By now, LG has totally cut us off and we don't have a flycutting tool for L92 heads/valves. Besides, thiers was already on loan with no ceartain time back and to us which would just tie our lift up for several days at the least. So in the meantime we're working up qoutes on heads w/ flycutting, qoutes for flycutting only, searching for smaller cams (which is difficult when we have zero idea what a g6x3 cam is anyway) and I'm even posting in the vendor section on here looking for a scrap L92 head to machine for our own notching tool. I lost ATLEAST half a day just searching for this or that while the customer continued to change his mind repeatedly.
There was absolutely no mis-information handed out by us and I can assure anyone that we take every precaution with every install we do. I want every customer to leave happy, but I can't let something fire up and go out the door that I feel has a good chance of blowing up. He had the opportunity to change cams, heads, etc and I was even going to invest our own money toward an L92 flycutting setup but before we even had the chance to do something good for the customer he flew off the handle, took the "screw it" attitude and said put it back to stock.
Obviously he knows we do good work, he had nothing but praise for us when we installed a cam into his C6 Z06 that worked just fine probably less than a year earlier. If he were "loyal", he would have listened to our cam reccomendations before deciding to just give up and been grateful that we saved him from a blown engine or at the least some bent valves. Instead he flys off the hook, puts the stock cam back in, and tells us to keep the LG cam because he doesn't even care...
His "****" was done right here and he should be thankful that it was. And if he had ordered a cam through us he would have got something that would have fit and if not it would have been on our dime...the price of the cam and the extra time spent swaping it for something else. A "loyal" customer would have let us make the situation right...we bent over backwards for him, only charged $240 to install a second cam and a thread like this is our thanks? If thats a loyal customer then I'm not sure we need any loyal customers.
Matt, maybe you should just take the g6x3 to vengeance and let them install it and see what they come up with. We did cam doctor it at Hendricks Motorsports...and the LSA is less than the 111 posted above.
Lobe sep on every cylinder was reccorded...the top of the sheet says EZCam Version 2.1.0. You should be getting the cam back in the mail if you haven't already, we don't have any use for it and you can send it back to recoup some of the money we stole from you by actually charging you for the install that we did.-Jonathan
12-16-2009, 08:34 AM
#20
First of all jonathan,I do appreciate all the precautions you take before you send your cars out the back door. I have had multiple calls about your business asking what I thought about you guys and whether or not they should let you work on their cars...just to let you know I said good things and did recomended you. Believe me, this thread was not meant to bash you, sorry if it came out that way.I am completely aware of the acountability when the customer supplies any parts(whatever they may be)The ONLY ISSUES I have with tick is MY PRICING..I know what you charge other people like guys who recomended to tick, and it seems a little high to me. I'm not telling you how to run your business, but if you take care of anybody take care of the ones who you know will be back and you know have money to spend as apposed to the guy who has to save up all year so they can bring you their ls1 to put on a set of headers or maybe a cam swap.And by the way when you earn it I am a very loyal customer...leaving it at that jonathan, I think your an awesome lsx builder and mechanic and I have and do have plenty of good things to say about you..Maybe we can work together on some things in the future. And o yeah...LG MOtORSPORTS DOES SUCK..