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I have another thread on here about my last track outing where I blew up my posi unit. I figured that I would try some 2:73s in place of the 3:42 that I had before, thinking the gear change would calm the car down out the hole....as well as get the rpm down on the topside. First pass of the day, the car spun really bad....and not knowing how the car was going to act shiftpoint wise, I shifted into 4th basically at the finish line. All other passes were made going through the traps in 3rd, as well as all the other passes bogging really bad. By the second bog, I knew I would have to come out the hole with some rpm...but I kept thinking about the last time that I got rough with it, and just couldn't bring myself to do what I needed to do. Anyway, I posted the slips in the order that they were ran. Video is of the last pass of the day. I'm car #1
I was getting better 60's on my stock stall / street radial / bolton t/a lol
Me too.
Game ova, that is a very impressive trap speed for a high 11 second car, but no doubt that its gotta be frustrating that the 60' is hurting you pretty bad. No doubt that your car is ridiculously fast.... except for out of the hole. I wish I had some great suggestions for you. What tires are you running?
You shouldn't give up, you said it yourself you're not doing what you need to do to get the car to run well. I'll give you my example, I built the turbo 383 6 speed car making 550-600rwhp on low boost and would consistently run in the 12s cause I refused to put a real tire on it. Finally grew a pair and put a tire on it and ran low to mid 11s once I got the 9 inch in the car. Then I finally put a 2 step on the car and went mid 10s driving to and from the track full weight street car. Leaving on the 2 step in boost will change your world when you hace traction. You either need to be content with what you have or do what you know you need to do to get the times you want.
Game ova, that is a very impressive trap speed for a high 11 second car, but no doubt that its gotta be frustrating that the 60' is hurting you pretty bad. No doubt that your car is ridiculously fast.... except for out of the hole. I wish I had some great suggestions for you. What tires are you running?
Street version of nitto....not the nt05r. What's funny is, there was a mirror image of my car there today...and he makes the same power I make (close enough, he makes 15 more) and he just switched to a Th400 from the t56. His car ran exactly like mine when he had the 6 speed. With NO other changes, other than theTh400....his car is now 1.4 seconds faster....and traps 15 more mph.
You shouldn't give up, you said it yourself you're not doing what you need to do to get the car to run well. I'll give you my example, I built the turbo 383 6 speed car making 550-600rwhp on low boost and would consistently run in the 12s cause I refused to put a real tire on it. Finally grew a pair and put a tire on it and ran low to mid 11s once I got the 9 inch in the car. Then I finally put a 2 step on the car and went mid 10s driving to and from the track full weight street car. Leaving on the 2 step in boost will change your world when you hace traction. You either need to be content with what you have or do what you know you need to do to get the times you want.
Street version of nitto....not the nt05r. What's funny is, there was a mirror image of my car there today...and he makes the same power I make (close enough, he makes 15 more) and he just switched to a Th400 from the t56. His car ran exactly like mine when he had the 6 speed. With NO other changes, other than theTh400....his car is now 1.4 seconds faster....and traps 15 more mph.
I was just getting ready to suggest the T400 and Tbrake.....but you already know that...
I was just getting ready to suggest the T400 and Tbrake.....but you already know that...
I love the idea of running a Th400 and laying down the law at the track, but I really need to decide if I want a fast track car....or a fun street car. And talking about the track brings up 2 issues, I would only be able to make 1..maybe two passes out the back door because I don't have a cage....and won't be installing one either (No safety speech needed). And the other issue, I have yet to see a 4th gen with a Th400 swap make the shifter look like it "belongs"....true it's cosmetic and isn't really serious...but still. Speaking of cage, the guy that I mentioned earlier that swapped to the Th400 from the t56 and now runs 9.40 @150 just ran into this very issue. After his last pass (first run out the back).....they told him to come to the tower. His days are now numbered track wise......
Here's what i would recommend...
...stay with the T56
...go back to 3.42
...dial back the harsh engagement of that Monster Stage 5
You need a lot of clutch to hold turbo power down the track, but that usually means you end up with way too much clutch to get off the line without a bog or spin. Temporarily holding back some clutch clamp pressure allows the clutch to slip a little longer, so you get less bog along with increased power production. Because engine rpm is not jerked down as abruptly with a softer hitting clutch, you also get the benefit of much less of a hammer effect on the drivetrain. Properly done the harsh engagement is only dialed back for less than a second after you release the pedal, so you will still have all the holding power of that Stage 5 coming in after that.
If you have an rpm graph of one of these runs and maybe a 3.42 geared run, i should be able to show you where and appx how much the above might improve your timeslips without killing your gears/diff.
Here's what i would recommend...
...stay with the T56
...go back to 3.42
...dial back the harsh engagement of that Monster Stage 5
You need a lot of clutch to hold turbo power down the track, but that usually means you end up with way too much clutch to get off the line without a bog or spin. Temporarily holding back some clutch clamp pressure allows the clutch to slip a little longer, so you get less bog along with increased power production. Because engine rpm is not jerked down as abruptly with a softer hitting clutch, you also get the benefit of much less of a hammer effect on the drivetrain. Properly done the harsh engagement is only dialed back for less than a second after you release the pedal, so you will still have all the holding power of that Stage 5 coming in after that.
If you have an rpm graph of one of these runs and maybe a 3.42 geared run, i should be able to show you where and appx how much the above might improve your timeslips without killing your gears/diff.
Grant
I don't have any logs/graphs yet. And I understand your point about the clutch, but other than riding the clutch to lessen the quick engagement/harshness... how would I go about this? And yea, I may go back to the 342s, because now...I'm going through the traps in 3rd instead of 4th which results in the same problem that I had before...to many rpm.
Originally Posted by madmike9396
Quit waisting time and buy you a real rearend.
10 bolt = grandma times
9 inch = move bitch get out the way hoe.
That is some awesome mph sir !
Lol, thanks man. When the funds get right, I will be purchasing a real rear end..I promise you that.
I don't have any logs/graphs yet. And I understand your point about the clutch, but other than riding the clutch to lessen the quick engagement/harshness... how would I go about this?
There are a few different ways...
1- temporarily hold back some clamp pressure with your foot, basically ride the clutch out for 5-10 feet. Adding an adjustable spring loaded pedal stop can make it easier to consistently find the sweet spot in the pedal travel
2- temporarily hold back some clamp pressure with a timed mechanical device.
The "timed mechanical device" is basically an adjustable limit/stop that restricts the return of the throwout bearing at the critical point in it's travel, but then bleeds off to allow the rest of the clutch's clamp pressure to come in at a controlled rate.
One method I have used is a small inertia damper cylinder that was designed for industrial motion control. They are a small threaded body hydraulic cylinder with a spring loaded rod extending from it. The cylinder is much like a 90/10 shock, as it extends very quickly but compresses slowly at an adjustable rate. They can be installed either behind the throwout fork or in front of the clutch pedal. You use the cylinder's threaded body to adjust the point where the pedal/arm contacts the rod, then there is a dial on the back of the cylinder where you adjust the cylinder's bleed-off rate. It installs much like a brake light switch, but depending on where the damper is mounted, it can be a pain to adjust.
An alternate method that i prefer is to install a small adjustable hydraulic cylinder on the clutch pedal. When the pedal is depressed, it pulls the cylinder's rod out. When the pedal is released, the pedal is allowed to freely return to an adjustable primary stop point, from that point on the cylinder's bleed-off rate controls the rate that the rest of the clamp pressure comes in. The reason i prefer this method is that it can be installed in an easily accessible place between the pedal and dash. I can adjust the one in my car from the driver's seat.
An additional method that is popular with the imports is a one-way orifice placed in-line with the slave cylinder. McLeod and Magnus both sell a version of this launch control, but the problem is that the entire return stroke is slowed, so they in turn also slow your reaction time. You can minimize this effect by "pre-loading" the drivetrain with the clutch, but your reaction time will still be slowed somewhat.
I'd link some pictures, but my website's server is being upgraded so they are temporarily off-line.
1- temporarily hold back some clamp pressure with your foot, basically ride the clutch out for 5-10 feet. Adding an adjustable spring loaded pedal stop can make it easier to consistently find the sweet spot in the pedal travel
2- temporarily hold back some clamp pressure with a timed mechanical device.
The "timed mechanical device" is basically an adjustable limit/stop that restricts the return of the throwout bearing at the critical point in it's travel, but then bleeds off to allow the rest of the clutch's clamp pressure to come in at a controlled rate.
One method I have used is a small inertia damper cylinder that was designed for industrial motion control. They are a small threaded body hydraulic cylinder with a spring loaded rod extending from it. The cylinder is much like a 90/10 shock, as it extends very quickly but compresses slowly at an adjustable rate. They can be installed either behind the throwout fork or in front of the clutch pedal. You use the cylinder's threaded body to adjust the point where the pedal/arm contacts the rod, then there is a dial on the back of the cylinder where you adjust the cylinder's bleed-off rate. It installs much like a brake light switch, but depending on where the damper is mounted, it can be a pain to adjust.
An alternate method that i prefer is to install a small adjustable hydraulic cylinder on the clutch pedal. When the pedal is depressed, it pulls the cylinder's rod out. When the pedal is released, the pedal is allowed to freely return to an adjustable primary stop point, from that point on the cylinder's bleed-off rate controls the rate that the rest of the clamp pressure comes in. The reason i prefer this method is that it can be installed in an easily accessible place between the pedal and dash. I can adjust the one in my car from the driver's seat.
An additional method that is popular with the imports is a one-way orifice placed in-line with the slave cylinder. McLeod and Magnus both sell a version of this launch control, but the problem is that the entire return stroke is slowed, so they in turn also slow your reaction time. You can minimize this effect by "pre-loading" the drivetrain with the clutch, but your reaction time will still be slowed somewhat.
I'd link some pictures, but my website's server is being upgraded so they are temporarily off-line.
The first method is doable, and I've tried it before with the 342s...worked decent, but truth be told..I HATE riding the clutch. The other methods pointed out are definitely good suggestions, but are more involved than I like. Really, I just need to make the choice. Do I want a fast car...or a fun one? If its going to be truly fast, a Th400 is pretty much mandatory. Since the season is pretty much over where I live, I will have plenty of time to think about it.
Two options really with the 6 speed. Either never take it to the track because you will be disappointed or be prepared to spend some coin. 28" Slicks, adjustable shocks, 9" with 3.50 or 3.70 gears, 2 step and a clutch that will hold 6,000 rpm dumps. Drag racing is all about the 60'. A 2.73 gear will never cut a good 60' with a t56, its just not possible. Even a 3.5 or 3.70 is hard to 60' on but with a lot of power it can be done.
Here was my first ever 10 second pass over 5 years ago on 8 psi.
Two options really with the 6 speed. Either never take it to the track because you will be disappointed or be prepared to spend some coin. 28" Slicks, adjustable shocks, 9" with 3.50 or 3.70 gears, 2 step and a clutch that will hold 6,000 rpm dumps. Drag racing is all about the 60'. A 2.73 gear will never cut a good 60' with a t56, its just not possible. Even a 3.5 or 3.70 is hard to 60' on but with a lot of power it can be done.
Here was my first ever 10 second pass over 5 years ago on 8 psi.
You mean 8psi on the 2 step...or total? I'm thinking of finding a Th400 that is in need of a rebuild, and building my first transmission. But it's just hard to get rid of the 6 speed. I feel like if I follow through with the 400, I will be getting into race car territory. Yea, the car will be crazy fast.....but I will also be buzzing along when on the interstate. Decisions decisions. You car looks good btw.
Thanks man, I know how you feel. 8 psi total I went 10.94 @ 128.7 and on 11 psi 10.64 @ 133. Stock 275/40-17 up front and through the stock slp dual dual exhaust haha. I never got any clean runs with the cutout open and got tired of transmission / clutch problems so stopped racing the ss. I refused to put a cage in the car and got tired of getting kicked from the track.
10-29-2016, 07:17 PM
I give up. ( Track vid and slips inside ) 
