V8_DSM_V8again

Yes its John Shepherds first generation talon AWD.. May not be a LS1 but records getting shattered and reshattered like this is still pretty cool... Esp with stock metal body panels and no lexan...

He ran a 8.55
Then broke that one at 8.437

Its now at 8.13 @ 176.12 run at ATCO in NJ... With high 7's soon to follow...

Video
http://www.midnitetuners.com/MTVids/shep.mpg

The 60ft is actually tougher than before due to getting used to the power increase and its effects on the transition from the 2 step to full clutch release. Hear it kind of take off a second time shortly after launch on the first run? that was a 8.14... Still did it a bit on the 8.13... It just did'nt look like a second launch....

Begining to see why I want to shoehorn a LS1, two turbos and AWD into a 1st gen camaro?

dlevene

iTrader: (7)

That's hauling the mail

COMNBYU

Begining to see why I want to shoehorn a LS1, two turbos and AWD into a 1st gen camaro?





No. AWD at that level is stupid.


Funny how I keep seeing all these vids online of him doing so good, but whenever I occassionaly watch the Import Drags on SPEED he seems to not be able to keep up with the mid-high 8 sec cars.


If he really wanted to move he'd figure out a way fit a 'glide in there










Jon

V8_DSM_V8again

Thats your opinion... I'll give you strip lane choice if you want to see if you were right....

The whole car has been changed.. A 4 spd dogbox transmission replaced the 5spd which used OEM gearsets and synchros. The turbo was changed, fuel injection changed... etc.. I'm pretty sure it was just teething problems...

COMNBYU

I said "at that level" it's stupid. Yes, it's only my opinion.

What kind of drivetrain do people like John Force and Scott Weis have? AWD?? No, RWD. What about Pro Stock, Pro Mod, Funny's, etc.???

My point is not to bash the fact that you might actually like AWD, it's this- AWD has absolutely ZERO advantages over RWD when you get to that point. Actually long before that point.

EX- a stock STi on radials is going to 60 better than a stock LS1 on radials. Now take an 11 sec STi with Hoosiers at all 4's, v.s. an 11 sec LS1 with a tire (and obviously the appropriate supporting susp./drivetrain upgrades), and you AWD isn't going to 60 any better.

At this point it becomes extra weight and more broken possibilities.


Yea it's nice to have on the street, and for weather, and maybe auto-x....

..but at that level, yes, it's stupid.


















Jon

V8_DSM_V8again

Umm what if the car is extremely streetable. Actually gets driven a good bit and sees a little auto-x or one lap kind of stuff...

Read the signature... Protouring.. I'll go cruising and drive it to a show not trailer it then put a copy of the single digit slip up on the window...

Having actually looked over some of the components I am considering and how they dwarf the sport compact driveline parts I am not too worried about breaking them..

Come on admit it.. Tiny short times combined with cornering like or above a C5 or something would be really fn cool...

Vents

iTrader: (9)

pretty much anything that runs bottom eights isint stupid. but thats just IMHO.

distortion_69

iTrader: (20)

AWD = Still being able to hook on the drag strip, while still using the tires you want to autocross/drive on in a street car to me. How many of you guys run slicks on the street? I ran et streets w/ no front sway bar for 2 months.. It was freaking stupid.. Even at twenty five psi you still have to steer to go in a straight line.

Peace,
Josh

V8_DSM_V8again

I run z rateds with stiff coil overs and aftermarket swaybars in both ends.. I can rip tight right turns at speeds that make my friends C4 squeel like crazy...

Its addictive which is why I want to build it into a domestic classic and end up with a car that nobody else has..

Think about it.. There is my twin turbo all wheel drive 1969 camaro.... When people say BS I will pop the hood to show them the engine and front CV shafts...

Look at the MPH the short end of the track data... He is easily making enough HP for 7's.. Once he gets the car to actually make a more controlled lunch with the new power output he will be there... He will hit 7s. His team has too much taltent not to. Nice enough guys to deserve the sucess too..

brad8266

iTrader: (23)

good luck with that, thats a hell of a project

V8_DSM_V8again

Keeps me out of the bars and if you are wrenching you are'nt burning gasoline..

sleeperstyle

iTrader: (4)

funny- i am an ex-dsm owner (91 tsi awd). my dsm- 12.40 @ 108mph- used to NOT HOOK as good as my ls1- i averaged mid 1.8 60fts spinning a little bit. if i tried to get it not to spin you would burn the clutch or bog. granted, this was on ventus hr's.

one of my friends named tort, runs at atco all of the time, was going 11.0's @ 125mph at atco for a while (new setup and tuning it in now). it is a black 1gdsm, light weight, on nitto's. he has TROUBLE hooking up in that car, doing a huge awd burnout bouncing off of the limiter coming out of the burnout box, he runs like 14psi in the tires too.

so- what the hell makes you think your grand touring car is going to hook at all? please tell me what tires you will use that will ALSO handle- the obvious thing is that you (v8-dsm-v8again) have never been in or seen a VERY fast awd car. they don't hook as good as you would think bro, i have out launched some of my friend's dsm's on the street because THEY were spinning. basically once you are out of the 12's in an awd car you will burn the tires off easily if not careful on the launch.

-nick

Lennyd

iTrader: (-4)

to each his own.

personaly if someone gave me a 69 tt awd camaro id take it

02SOMWS6

iTrader: (6)

Not a surprize the record was broke at ATCO. It's probly in the top 5 quickest tracks on earth because of elavation and good track prep. I think the track might be below or right at sea level

sleeperstyle

iTrader: (4)

atco is slightly above sea level, and is prepped good sometimes but not at all one of the fastest tracks in america. i have run the same at englishtown and atco within one month of each other, maple grove also about the same. island is slightly slower but awesome prep there.

cecil county raceway is BELOW sea level and slightly downhill- that is THE fastest track i know of

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

that can still get off the line better. I'd love to see and check the 69 awd car.

V8_DSM_V8again

Wanna go for a ride?

I did that well and eventually better when I had a 16g turbo on a stock 2g engine a long time ago... Then I decided to go big built up a 6 bolt and yanked the old engine.

Here is one hint.. Tell him to drive AROUND the burn out box since it is an AWD car...

Sure an AWD burnout on drag radials only making enough HP to run 11s...

Hahaha...........

Camera with audio right by the tree...
http://www.shepracing.com/videos/8.55@176.9.mpeg

A little squeeking of the tires but no burnout at all.. They are just at the limit and the driver is applying power up to but not ever the limit...

I do it all the time. Not as much but at times yes they do let me know they are working hard.. A smooth squeek like sound from tire strain is'nt severe spin... It is tires rotating only one to two times more than it would coasting 20ft...

His is a 1200hp + car.. It also has a spooled center differential. I make probably mid 600's... have a aftermarket 4 spider center diff, OEM rear LSD and a aftermarket front LSD. There is another vid up of it getting a little sideways... It was easily recovered and had a minimal effect on the ET.. They are alot easier to control and get down the track than a RWD car with the same power to weight ratio..

Point being.. If a 1000+ hp car with driver skill can hook and launch like a mfr its easier to do it at the 650 hp level.....

Alot of it is clutch selection.. you need to combine power capacity with the ability to consistently and gradually slip...

As for street tires on a summer only car.. I suggest ppl run Max performance class tires..

Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07 These rule
Pirelli PZero Nero These rule too
Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole
Michelin Pilot Sport
KUMHO ECSTA MX
BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD

245 wide on forged 17's

Suspension..

Ground control collars, coaxial hats and spherical bearing plates, QA1 springs, koni shocks, energy suspension master bushing kit, RM DSM sway bars front and rear.

Lowered around 2".. Final height was a result of suspension tuning.. Basically lowering as much as is sensible while making the most out of bump travel and front CV angles. I also did x corner weights. I left the front camber alone..

The minimal amount of negative front negative camber as compared to track settings does'nt hurt the tire that much The toe change does.. I just zeroed the toe.... In the rear I obviously set the set the toe to zero and I set camber to about 1.25 degrees less negative than the front so I just used GM shims under the upper control arm mounts and a bit longer bolts... A small amount of -ve is fine up front on the street... If I were an auto-x guy I would have a camber kit so I could switch from where I am now to even more -camber at the track by rotating the bushings opposite of how most people use the kits..

I decided on my tire pressure levels using a pyrometer...

Incidentally I have set up quite a few cars. Back half and tube framed... Circle track and a couple of serious autox cars....

I got a 1st gen camaro to pick up the front on 10.5" slots just via pinion angle shims and bars (not slappers)... He had good shocks already.. Yes they had lowered pressure. That was in the early 90's after seeing hot rod magazine do it to a 1st gen back in HS... That was about 16 years ago... I have been building and tuning cars ever since..

The camaro strategy will be a modest stall converter for street maners and to get one in there alot tougher than OE.. I dont really want to stall way into boost... I'll hit the tires some at the line but nowhere near as hard as a tubbed car.. The theory is to put full power down from 15' to 60' and not at the line where its hard on things and hard to control....

As anyone who has driven a highly boosted turbo car knows there is a point in the RPMS where spool kicks in really hard.... Well I want to have that happen a little ways out of the hole.. Maybe 20% of peak boost at the line on the stutter box...

What makes you think I even care about what you think? My freinds typhoon hooks..... So with better axles and tires that look like they came off a mini tubbed C5 in the rear and 275 wide fronts... I dont think I will have a problem..

PS
Its PRO-TOURING not "grand touring"....

I think someone is going to be if he runs his LS1 vs the upcoming Trailblazer SSR....