Added shocks what kinda et gains?????
11-07-2009, 07:50 PM
#1
Added shocks what kinda et gains????? I had stock WS6 shocks and springs, just changed them to Strange DA fronts and 300# springs with comp 3way drag shocks out back. What kind of ET gains should I expect.
Previous best was a 1.68 60ft 1/4th 11.68@119.12
Previous best was a 1.68 60ft 1/4th 11.68@119.12
11-08-2009, 05:49 PM
#4
To me even if your getting traction now, adjustable shocks can help with things like curing a bog, and help you hit the tires harder(faster 60').
This is just me thinking out loud...
11-10-2009, 12:16 PM
#5
well first time out, I started with the extension on 0 and compression on 6, rears 50/50. I didnt have any time to try different things and the 60ft slowed down to mid 1.7s 
! Car would not settle down. It would come up, then down real hard then go back up again. Im going to try and get out Friday and try some different settings.
! Car would not settle down. It would come up, then down real hard then go back up again. Im going to try and get out Friday and try some different settings.
11-10-2009, 12:35 PM
#6
I picked up .30 (averaged about .20) just adding front Strange SA's on the front, but I was having traction issues before the shocks were added. If you were on full loose extension, the front was probably coming up too quickly and then unloading the rear tires. I haven't heard of anyone having good luck on full loose extension and it's hard to drive a 6sp car that way with the front bouncing around like a jumping bean lol....
FWIW, mine had the best luck on settings 3, and 4 from full loose (zero).
Mike
FWIW, mine had the best luck on settings 3, and 4 from full loose (zero).
Mike
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11-10-2009, 12:39 PM
#8
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You'll probably have to tighten the extension some in the front to slow the rise so that it doesn't hit full extension too quickly and fall back down. It's a fairly common problem with having the extension set too loose in the front.
Edit... Oops, somebody already said that, sorry. Anyways, keep tightening it up front until it stops transferring / hooking then back it off a click or 2.
Edit... Oops, somebody already said that, sorry. Anyways, keep tightening it up front until it stops transferring / hooking then back it off a click or 2.
11-10-2009, 10:56 PM
#11
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To answer the original question, every car is different. Only you will be able to tell us how much this helped your car when you take it to the track, but the shocks should definitely help...
11-10-2009, 11:00 PM
#12
You can definitely see the front bouncing around which isn't what you want..
This is from the sticky above about launching
This is from the sticky above about launching
Shocks
The goal of the front shocks is to control the rise and fall of the front end. The most efficient launch is when the front end rises slowly and settles down slowly while the car is still accelerating. The rate that the shocks extend and collapse is dependent on many factors: Tire size, rear gear ratio, first gear ratio, T-brake, torque converter stall, vehicle weight, horsepower, track conditions, etc.
If you were to graph the front bumper during a launch you want a nice even rise and a nice even fall throughout the first 20-60 feet. You don't want the bumper to pop up quickly then fall slowly. you also don't want the bumper to pop up quickly then fall quickly.
Fact: Maximum weight transfer occurs when the front shocks are at Maximum extension.
If the front end is soft and rises easily then maximum weight transfer happens within the first 2 feet of the launch. Once the shocks are fully extended, the only direction they can go is back down. Once the shocks start collapsing, the rear tires start to unload. What can happen is that the front end will rise quickly and get traction but then the front end starts to settle. With a car that produces a lot of power this will cause the car to hook hard initially for the first 3-5 feet then start to spin the tires while the shocks are collapsing from full extension. If the car does not have enough power to spin the tires then the car just wasted energy on raising the front end instead of pushing the car forward.
*Remember: It's not about getting traction. It's about launching the car Efficiently.*
If the front end is soft and takes little effort to lift the front bumper then the very first reaction during a launch is for the front end to rise instead of the car to move forward. I prefer to have the front end rise as slowly as possible. This means that any available energy is directed toward making the car move forward instead of up. If the car is moving up, then it is not moving forward which slows down the 60' time. There can be a fine line where the front end does not rise quick enough and can slow down the 60' times because it is working the engine too hard and doesn't allow the engine to rev quick enough. This is where adjustable shocks help.
Here is an example that will help explain how the front shocks and the rear tires react to each other.
Imagine standing on a bathroom scale and holding one end of a 12 foot long board. The other end is being supported by a friend. Your feet represent the rear tires and your friend represents the front springs/shocks.
-Try lifting the board out of your friends hands from your end of the board. With no help from your friend the board will feel very heavy and as you try to lift the board, you will apply pressure to the bathroom scale. This is similar to the reaction that the tires will feel with stiff rebounding front shocks.
-Now do the same thing but allow your friend to help lift the board. As your friend is helping, the reading on the bathroom scale will read Less than when he wasn't helping. This is similar to the reaction that the rear tires feel with soft rebounding front shocks
*So during the time that the front of the car is lifting the front end (but before the shocks are topped out) the stiffer rebounding shocks are applying more force to the rear tires.*
The goal of the front shocks is to control the rise and fall of the front end. The most efficient launch is when the front end rises slowly and settles down slowly while the car is still accelerating. The rate that the shocks extend and collapse is dependent on many factors: Tire size, rear gear ratio, first gear ratio, T-brake, torque converter stall, vehicle weight, horsepower, track conditions, etc.
If you were to graph the front bumper during a launch you want a nice even rise and a nice even fall throughout the first 20-60 feet. You don't want the bumper to pop up quickly then fall slowly. you also don't want the bumper to pop up quickly then fall quickly.
Fact: Maximum weight transfer occurs when the front shocks are at Maximum extension.
If the front end is soft and rises easily then maximum weight transfer happens within the first 2 feet of the launch. Once the shocks are fully extended, the only direction they can go is back down. Once the shocks start collapsing, the rear tires start to unload. What can happen is that the front end will rise quickly and get traction but then the front end starts to settle. With a car that produces a lot of power this will cause the car to hook hard initially for the first 3-5 feet then start to spin the tires while the shocks are collapsing from full extension. If the car does not have enough power to spin the tires then the car just wasted energy on raising the front end instead of pushing the car forward.
*Remember: It's not about getting traction. It's about launching the car Efficiently.*
If the front end is soft and takes little effort to lift the front bumper then the very first reaction during a launch is for the front end to rise instead of the car to move forward. I prefer to have the front end rise as slowly as possible. This means that any available energy is directed toward making the car move forward instead of up. If the car is moving up, then it is not moving forward which slows down the 60' time. There can be a fine line where the front end does not rise quick enough and can slow down the 60' times because it is working the engine too hard and doesn't allow the engine to rev quick enough. This is where adjustable shocks help.
Here is an example that will help explain how the front shocks and the rear tires react to each other.
Imagine standing on a bathroom scale and holding one end of a 12 foot long board. The other end is being supported by a friend. Your feet represent the rear tires and your friend represents the front springs/shocks.
-Try lifting the board out of your friends hands from your end of the board. With no help from your friend the board will feel very heavy and as you try to lift the board, you will apply pressure to the bathroom scale. This is similar to the reaction that the tires will feel with stiff rebounding front shocks.
-Now do the same thing but allow your friend to help lift the board. As your friend is helping, the reading on the bathroom scale will read Less than when he wasn't helping. This is similar to the reaction that the rear tires feel with soft rebounding front shocks
*So during the time that the front of the car is lifting the front end (but before the shocks are topped out) the stiffer rebounding shocks are applying more force to the rear tires.*
11-11-2009, 09:36 AM
#13
LS1Tech Co-Founder
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Without looking at the vid multiple times, it looks like the nose came up just a little bit, body rocked back a little onto the back tires, and then rocked forward unloading the rears causing the car to spin or bog.
Car looked pretty stiff in back, so I'd focus on the front. You don't want that nose to dip. I've never used those shocks but you want to keep the weight on the back tires so you want that nose to stay up a bit. It's the same principle for making drag radials work on a car. Keep most of the weight on the back tires and don't let the nose drop or the car will spin.
Car looked pretty stiff in back, so I'd focus on the front. You don't want that nose to dip. I've never used those shocks but you want to keep the weight on the back tires so you want that nose to stay up a bit. It's the same principle for making drag radials work on a car. Keep most of the weight on the back tires and don't let the nose drop or the car will spin.
11-11-2009, 09:52 AM
#14
Im getting a set of R series fronts with a 300-310 pound spring. I already have 12 ways on the back. My issue was the car popped but then slammed on the rear and then unloaded and could not yield anything better then a mid 1.7 60 foot. When swapping tires, i saw clearly the bump stops marks on the dirty rear. It made a nice clean spot.
So anyways. I bought the parts needed between a UMI Drag Bar, SFC's, and the shocks and I expect persay on the same tire to cut a 1.6x 60 foot. If the race weight is the same, but I up the rear gear, then I may get into the 1.5's but race weight needs to come down so that will help as well.
ET drops are very nice, but getting a car to be consistant and working correctly given the ever changing track conditions IMO is more important.
So anyways. I bought the parts needed between a UMI Drag Bar, SFC's, and the shocks and I expect persay on the same tire to cut a 1.6x 60 foot. If the race weight is the same, but I up the rear gear, then I may get into the 1.5's but race weight needs to come down so that will help as well.
ET drops are very nice, but getting a car to be consistant and working correctly given the ever changing track conditions IMO is more important.
11-11-2009, 01:35 PM
#15
If you can, the next time out, try getting the person running the video to get behind the car and get a 3/4 rear shot of the car launching, preferably on the drivers side with a steady hand. I had to train my gf this past summer to get good video framing of the car with the tree lights lol..... 
The video is an invaluable tool when making changes to the suspension, especially when you slow down the video frame-by-frame. Having the vid from the back shows exactly what the car/suspension/chassis is doing so that you/we can make educated changes/advice. If I learned one thing this past summer, is that if something works for one car, it may or may not work for your car. This is especially true when comparing suspension settings from an automatic car, to a 6sp car.
Tell us a little more about your setup; suspension equip, gears, tire type/size, launch rpm etc..
Mike
The video is an invaluable tool when making changes to the suspension, especially when you slow down the video frame-by-frame. Having the vid from the back shows exactly what the car/suspension/chassis is doing so that you/we can make educated changes/advice. If I learned one thing this past summer, is that if something works for one car, it may or may not work for your car. This is especially true when comparing suspension settings from an automatic car, to a 6sp car. Tell us a little more about your setup; suspension equip, gears, tire type/size, launch rpm etc..
Mike
11-11-2009, 02:15 PM
#16
Car has a 355LT1 w stock ported heads and intake. UMI k-member, TA, TA relocation, BMR SFC,PHB,LCA front Strange DAs with 300# springs and comp 3way drag shocks out back with stock springs, tires are Hoosier QTPs 27x10.5 at 15psi warm & ET fronts. Gears are 4.10s. Street twin clutch and a S60 out back.
Launch in that run was 4500 off the 2-step, clutch was right at engagement point with the gas to the floor, then let off the clutch and button at the same time.
I have upper a-arms but waiting to put them in untill I have lowers to match.
Launch in that run was 4500 off the 2-step, clutch was right at engagement point with the gas to the floor, then let off the clutch and button at the same time.
I have upper a-arms but waiting to put them in untill I have lowers to match.
11-12-2009, 02:21 PM
#17
Couple things that might help your launch. Start your next track day with a front shcok setting 3 or 4 on extension. If the car is not spinning the tires, raise the rpm on the 2-step in increments of 200rpm until you barely start to spin off the line. You might consider dropping the air pressure in the tires depending how high you can raise the rpm on the 2-step. Ultimately, you want to have a fairly high launch rpm, but you also want a little bit of wheel speed (spin) to prevent a bog. I'd shoot for 5200 -6000 rpm launch with those goals in mind. You can fine tune it with adjusting air pressure in the tires, and adjusting the front shock settings. If you lower the tire pressure, mark the tire to the wheel to make sure it's not spinning on the wheel. Make small changes, change only one thing at a time, and it helps to write down your changes and affects in a log book after every run so that you can review your notes later. Trust me, writing them down helps because you will forget what you did lol...
Good luck at your next track day.
Mike
11-12-2009, 06:24 PM
#18
Yes I use a finger button. Not sure I like the idea of hitting the secondary limiter on shifts. I shift near 7k and the 2-step would be activated at a much lower RPM every shift correct? Im using it for more consistant launches not so much after I launch.
Thanks for the shock info, Ill try a few different things tomorrow take notes and keep bumping up the 2-step untill it spins to bad.
Thanks for the shock info, Ill try a few different things tomorrow take notes and keep bumping up the 2-step untill it spins to bad.
11-12-2009, 11:53 PM
#19
Yes I use a finger button. Not sure I like the idea of hitting the secondary limiter on shifts. I shift near 7k and the 2-step would be activated at a much lower RPM every shift correct? Im using it for more consistant launches not so much after I launch.
Thanks for the shock info, Ill try a few different things tomorrow take notes and keep bumping up the 2-step untill it spins to bad.
Thanks for the shock info, Ill try a few different things tomorrow take notes and keep bumping up the 2-step untill it spins to bad.
What kind of 2-step are you using?
Mike
11-13-2009, 01:17 AM
#20
ok i think i can help you with your 2 step thing. i dont know about other brands though. i run the msd 2 step hooked up to my clutch pedal with a 2way switch to activate or not but it is only so i can shut it off on the street. the msd wired to the clutch pedal will engage when the clutch is in. as soon as it is let out deactivates. as per msd instructions and my own testing it will not engage between shifts with the pedal in as the rpm's have to drop more than a 1/3 of what the 2 step is set at. so theoretically if it is set a 3k the rpms have to drop below 2k to engage otherwise it stays off. hope this helps and if you have any other questions about it ill try my best.