jt76

iTrader: (10)

What is the weight savings of going with a chromoly vs a mild steel k member? I am strongly considering the PA racing piece. thanks.

ssvert99

iTrader: (26)

give us a call before you make a purchase... we will give you the truth about the differences with no sales pitch bs. we manufacture both and you will be surprised about what you may hear otherwise. actual weights may not be advertised with engine mounts so be careful about the numbers between weight and cost.

BlackScreaminMachine

iTrader: (17)

I was told by a very knowledgable member about the ratio of MS to Chromoly in terms of weight and this was in terms of a roll cage. I do not have the specific on the ratio as it was a while back. I'll see if I can find it, or if they decide to post it up. From what I can remember was that it was suprisingly not as much as I might of thought.

Also a great point is to ask if Engine Motor Mounts are included in their advertised weights.

This would be a good time to decided IF you want to keep the Power Steering or delete it as with some companies it does make a difference.

Fb0dy0nly

iTrader: (10)

yeah MS and chromoly don't different in weight tooo much but moly is a ton stronger.

BlackScreaminMachine

iTrader: (17)

Not to get too into the metallurgy side of things. In terms of Hardness CM is more "brittle" then M/S and maybe considered "Stronger" then M/S but since there is less meterial/mass which = weight savings I would have a hard time arguing that.

Like the Process of Titanium, for a given "Mass/Size" compared to lets say a M/S you can have equivilent strength but need less.

I personally would be wary of taking a stock weighted car (minimal weight reduction) and putting it on the bumper and not expecting to breaking the K-member when it slams on the ground where as I have personally seen F bodies go on the bumper on stock k members and verified almost no damage.

Just my opinion, could be wrong, but I feel strong in this way.

joker machine

from what i've heard cm is about 20% lighter than ms.

studderin

iTrader: (28)

I called around and got all the weights a few years ago when I was looking into just this jim. I think I posted it with joelster if you want to look, it might have been on the old NYFbody site.
There are some nice lightweight Kmembers out there, for sure. But it comes down to on a car like yours and mine. If you need to run LS1 motor mounts, stock style lower control arms, and PS with the stock rock. It will be between the BMR and PA one. BMR all fit great and are strong. PA was 1st Procraft of somthing way back in the day. the the jason started his one thing PA. I guess its better, but still not as nice as BMR stuff. If you run the stock rack on the PA in not in the right spot and one side of the boot rubs. You've seen the PA on on bills car but remebed he changed the rack mounts, so that fit better on his. I have no ide on the MWC one if you get some numbers post them up, They might have something better and thaw would be great. I know your asking between 4130 and MS, no BS but just get the MS BMR one. And get somthing else to save weight. Nothing beats the weight they save for the price, unless you getting all new front end stuff with a race car you want to get under 2800. Thats I know of your not going to get a 4130 Kemeber with engine stands that lighter then 5#s of the BMR steel one, and if so it will cost $250-500$ more. There still a ton of lighter things you can buy for your car thats 15-20#s for that money.


just gona post some info if you didnt already do this......
My stock Kemeber with iron stands bolted to it was 57.5#'s BTW. The BMR is 24.5 I weight them myself. I can't find the PA weights right now, But I remember I think it was 22# for the mild steel, and 19 for 4130 ($85 more) And there stands are mild steel and weight 8.5. So thats more then the BMR, and it cost more. The UMI Kemeber is really heavy at 29, and that retarded "road race" one is 35. Spohn one gets up in price too, and only a few pounds lighter.




PA
93-02 Camaro/Firebird K-members 4th Gen 93-02 Camaro/Firebird K-members 4th Gen
- Color Black
- Material Mild Steel
- Motor Mounts LS1
- Rack Option Standard Rack
- Road Race Option No
- Year 1998-2002 $369.00

98-2002 Camaro/Firebird LS1 Tubular Solid Motor Mounts
$119.95

Sub-Total: $488.95 MS
$569.95 4130



BMR K-member, LS1 Motor Mounts, Factory Rack Mounts
$449.95 ea. (newEra)


SPohn
704-4130B Tubular K-Member - LSx Engines - 1993-2002 GM F-Body: Camaro & Firebird $465.00
Install LSx Motor Mount Pads $50.00
Material Type: 4130N Chrome Moly $250.00
Rack To Be Installed: Stock Rack
992B Tubular LSx Solid Motor Mounts - 1998-2002 GM F-Body: Camaro & Firebird $149.00 $149.00
Color: Gloss Black
SUBTOTAL: $914.00

racecraft
1993-2002 Camaro 4130 K-Member
* Motor Mounts - LS1 Motor Mounts
* CrossMember - OEM CrossMember
Rack Mounts - OEM 93-02 4th Gen Rack Mounts
Tow Hooks - No Tow Hooks

Sub-Total: $524.00
Weights
# K-member with LS1 mounts 20.2 lbs
# K-member with LT1 mounts 18.3 lbs.
# K-member w/o mounts 15.6 lbs.


steel $399.00
Racecraft K-Member with Mounts: 21.6 lbs
(but you still have to get the stands to hold the motor)


ve the mounts that go to the motor. So you either have to run the poly sheels that are not super light for $50 or the soild style MWC had and that new motive? shop. XSSIve guy sells for $80. The spohn dose, but the motor mounts really high with them, and the motor it fixed soild so remeber tho pull the trans you have to simi take thouse engine bolts out, so the motor tilts a little.



If your gona run a motor plate, and a diffrent rack, then the PA (ok) racecraft (very nice), and MWC in 4130 can save some weight, (and cost a bunch more)

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Our "retarded" road race K-member is being used in CMC and American Iron classes with no failures...

www.americanironracing.com and www.camaromustangchallenge.com

Our K-member is not the lightest on the market, we never said it was or advertised it as being so. We built it for all types of driving including road racing, drag racing and street driving. We are proud to announce no failures.

joelster

My UMI one is heavy as hell. It fit like **** too.

UMI Performance

iTrader: (77)

Where did you have fitment trouble at? We don't get any complaints on fitment. It is extremely tough to get the motor lined up if you leave it in the car and we offer some support on that here and there, or a guide pin. Let me know

Thank you,
Ryan

joelster

A friend of mine did the install at his shop. He was not a happy guy afterwards, lol. I bought it as a package deal from BYUNSPEED on here. The lower a-arms saved as much weight as the k-member which I thought was odd. Price was reasonable at $750ish for the k-member and a-arms, shipping sucked (1.5 months), parts look great still, and the fitment was so-so.

Breathing Fire

You guys have to remember that fitment issues with these cars as old as they are may not be the quality of the piece you bought. One thought going through your head should be that maybe my car is 9+ years old. I might have been in a fender bender or a previous owner beat the living hell out of it. The frame of a car can sag and move over time, believe me I have encountered this.

All that said I don't have any aftermarket Kmember and though I have plans for one in the future it is still a ways out. Just pointing out your possible fitment issues.

RamAir95TA

iTrader: (2)

My mild steel UMI k-member fit pretty damn good. The ONLY thing I had to do was slightly bend one of the locating pins, an easy fix. Other than that, no problems whatsoever. I'll be buying from them again in the future.

9sec93

iTrader: (67)

chromoly and mild steel actually weigh the same. the weight savings comes in since you run a thinner wall with CM vs MS. example: MS cage you would use .120 wall and CM you would use .083 wall. there is your weight savings, about 30% less material material so 30% less weight. a 6 point MS rollbar usually wieghs around 100 lbs or so and CM around 70 lbs. so in something smaller like a k-member there isnt a huge weight difference for the added cost.

joelster

True but it's not like a chromoly k-member costs a grand or anything. 5 years down the road when you've bought all the lightweight goodies available for your car, you may be kicking yourself for not spending the extra loot on the lighter k-member. I know that I am. BTW my chromoly cage was 48lbs on the nose. Well worht the $150 extra for the material to save 20lbs.

03 BUSA

iTrader: (25)

C/M all day long here. FWIW

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

This is the exact reason I went with the UMI k-member... Everyone is trying to save those extra 2lbs...The UMI is heavier because it has a double tube support right under the oil pan, that runs from corner to corner...Well worth the extra weight in my eyes...Does anyone ever think they are going to go on the bumper NO, but it happens...I went for a 175ft bumper dragging wheel stand myself and had to let out 100% cause it went towards the wall when I was facing SKY. It came down 100% with no help from the engine on the passenger side...Headers got crunched some, oil and trans pan got scratched a little and k-member got tweaked a hair. But for how hard this car came down I was really surprised at how little damage there was. And I drove the car 80miles home that night. If it wasn't for that double tube support I know for sure the damage would have been a ton worse and i would have needed a flat bed to get home. Some pieces you just shouldn't think only about the weight savings. IMO some of them are wheels (just look at all the threads on splitting Bogart's), upper and lower a-arms, & k member.

I am very happy with the fit of my UMI K member and its performance.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Retarded RR K-member? Really?

I've seen pictures of BMR Ks pull apart at the weld seams which is indicative of poor craftsmanship or poor engineering. One is workers that don't care the other is because R&D wasn't up to speed.

I've witnessed PA Ks sheer the mounting tabs where the steering rack mounts and send cars into walls.

Feedback to both camps has basically told those with the issues to pound sand ... never heard of the issue ... excuse after excuse to cover up and carry on.

I was also around when UMI first posted up their version of a K-Member. Ryan was ripped because it was inadequately braced to accommodate road race loading and wheel stand bouncing.

There was a long discussion about it on FRRAX.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=7319

Ryan's personal commitment to making a quality product by soliciting feedback from a bunch of folks who actually use the product instead of "eye-balling" it or however it was designed.

Think about it ... build a component based upon best guess, send it to production, sell it, monitor failures and react subsequent to that. That means the customer base does the R&D and pays to do so.

I didn't see UMI doing that. Impressive.

Sure you could go for years and not have an issue with ANY K-member. But it's been proven time after time that the probability of failure is high on some manufacturers than others.

What I find laughable are those that haggle over 5-10 lbs on a K-member and still run AC, subs/amps, air bags, full exhaust and/or a back seat.

I mean come on ... is it a race car or some bastardized version of one? Until you strip the damn thing of every ounce you can, then don't **** and moan about 10lbs of bracing. You'll need it more than likely.

Am I a UMI nutswinger? Not by a long shot.
I don't like the articulating in the middle control arms. I think they are a failure waiting to happen and have told Ryan as much.

BadROC

iTrader: (6)

Jim I had a PA racing moly kmember on my iroc. Drove it alot on the street and pulled the wheels at the track. Never had any problem. Strong welds. Very light. Awesome fitment.

Demonicbird00

iTrader: (17)

i too have the UMI kmember w/ upper and lower a arms... im am MORE then happy w/ it, ive had it for 4 years never an issuse and fitment was perfect

like chris said, I too will take extra strength of the double tube design over a mezzy 5lbs

-brandon