390 rwhp WS6 dissapointing 12.8@111 - LS1TECH

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390 rwhp WS6 dissapointing 12.8@111

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Old 06-19-2012, 10:35 AM   #1
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Default 390 rwhp WS6 dissapointing 12.8@111

02 ws6 m6 with 125k miles

Current power mods:
222/226 cam
BBK LT headers with hf cats
Lid
Catback

I did the cam/ header swap around 95k miles. Did the LS7 clutch a few months ago

Had it retuned and it put down 390/365 SAE corrected.

My best run after about 25 passes is 12.8 @ 111 with a 1.9 60 ft.

Is something wrong with my car or maybe a happy dyno???
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:04 AM   #2
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It's called heavy *** car + M6 transmission + Incorrect tire + not enough Launch RPM = Sub optimal MPH and ET.

So now you need to invest in a rear end, gearing and suspension as well as a drag rim/tire package. Maybe a 2 step and go back. That should be by the time your done with your own labor 3-4 grand. Maybe more depending on parts and what work you dont do.

I can tell you I may like 5-10 rwhp less and managed a 12.3 @ 113 and that considered not even good. I Am very heavy and the car heavy as well , only weight reduction we a fiber glass hood (stock t/a steel to WS.9 Fiberglass), and took the rear seats out. BMR LCA w/ Relocations, BMR TQ arm, Moser 12 bolt 4.10's on Convo Pro's and M/T ET Drags (26" tall small *** slicks).

The car hit so hard that the body bounced off the rear and did the 3 wheel gangsta so long story short, I need to go back but not until I did SFC's Drag bar in the rear, and shocks. ALso weight reduction and maybe more gearing (4.30's or more.

Gearing and the proper tire/rpm speed is going to make a huge difference and may put you in an 11's so as long as you can drive.

----

The car cought bout 1.5 ft on the left and 1 ft on the front. Nice pop but getting stiffer shocks to control is what is needed. I have 10 Way QA1 which is probably not enough but gotta work in the budget....

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Old 06-19-2012, 11:10 AM   #3
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Dynos are made for tuning. Only numbers that count in my book are track. My car "made" 375 supposedly but in a full weight gto went 12.3 at 115.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:29 PM   #4
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It's all in the driveline and suspension.
With a 3400lb race weight, I went an 11.15@120.3 with 344rwhp
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:04 PM   #5
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not being an *** but the DRIVER MOD would be your best mod.... get more time in launching the car and get those shifts quicker.

I've seen multiple bolt-on 6 speed cars run 12.3s-12.4s with no suspension and the stock rear end.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:22 PM   #6
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With 390, mid 11's should be no problem. Do some weight reductions then get back to the track. GL
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:12 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by BlackScreaminMachine View Post
It's called heavy *** car + M6 transmission + Incorrect tire + not enough Launch RPM = Sub optimal MPH and ET.

Quote:
So now you need to invest in a rear end, gearing and suspension as well as a drag rim/tire package. Maybe a 2 step and go back. That should be by the time your done with your own labor 3-4 grand. Maybe more depending on parts and what work you dont do.
Rear end=$2k-$3500 for new
drag wheel & tires=$1500-$2k
2 step=$200
Some suspension stuff like crossmember mounted torque arm, PHB, LCAs & SFCs= $1k. Then if you want drag shocks more$$$ on top of that. It adds up quick.
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I can tell you I may like 5-10 rwhp less and managed a 12.3 @ 113 and that considered not even good. I Am very heavy and the car heavy as well , only weight reduction we a fiber glass hood (stock t/a steel to WS.9 Fiberglass), and took the rear seats out. BMR LCA w/ Relocations, BMR TQ arm, Moser 12 bolt 4.10's on Convo Pro's and M/T ET Drags (26" tall small *** slicks).
With 380 whp I ran the same, 12.3 @ 113 with 17 in DRs slippin the clutch
on the stock 10 bolt. 1.9 60s but didnt break.
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The car hit so hard that the body bounced off the rear and did the 3 wheel gangsta so long story short, I need to go back but not until I did SFC's Drag bar in the rear, and shocks. ALso weight reduction and maybe more gearing (4.30's or more.
3 wheel gangsta??
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:31 PM   #8
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Change that cam, that mph is terrible. A Friends car went 111 with an SLP lid, ported TB and a chopped off muffler.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:23 PM   #9
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I forgot to mention my car is lowered with a koni shocks/strano spring combo. I do have subframes and adjustable LCAs set for the best angle for drag racing.

I am also running on nitto 555r drag radials set at 18 psi when im at the track. Is 1.7xx gonna be the best 60 ft with my power level/ tire?

One of the rear KONIS adjustable **** is stuck on full stiff and they are sending me a new one.

Would it be ideal to set the rear shocks to full soft???

I have a feeling being lowered is hurting me.

What i fail to understand is the mph of 111??? Thats why im thinking its a happy dynojet. Im running at Sacramento Raceway, i dont think the DA is that horrible.

Thank you all for the input so far.
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:20 AM   #10
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I forgot to mention my car is lowered with a koni shocks/strano spring combo. I do have subframes and adjustable LCAs set for the best angle for drag racing.
I would imagine you have the LCA relocation brackets, otherwise you would get wheelhop.
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I am also running on nitto 555r drag radials set at 18 psi when im at the track. Is 1.7xx gonna be the best 60 ft with my power level/ tire?
Thats a damn good 60 if youre still on the stock rear. I wouldnt push it any more, unless you dont care if it breaks.
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One of the rear KONIS adjustable **** is stuck on full stiff and they are sending me a new one.

Would it be ideal to set the rear shocks to full soft???
That I couldnt tell ya. Someone thats using those could though.
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I have a feeling being lowered is hurting me.
Not really, as long as your pinion angle & LCAs are adjusted where they should. My car is lowered too & the only problem I have is our local track has poor track prep.
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What i fail to understand is the mph of 111??? Thats why im thinking its a happy dynojet. Im running at Sacramento Raceway, i dont think the DA is that horrible.

Thank you all for the input so far.
That reading could be slightly high but it sounds like its in the ballpark of where it should be. I had the same problem you did after my cam install, trapping 111 but my times were a lil better, 12.5s & questioning the tune & if the cam was lined up where it should be. The thing is, you really gotta drive the car hard, take it to the redline if its 6200-6400 or whatever it is without lifting your foot off the gas & shifting as fast as you can & you will see an improvement.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:39 AM   #11
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3 wheel gangsta??
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:56 AM   #12
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Don't feel too bad. My best in my cam only 2000 SS (heavy car with leather, no weight reduction and aftermarket ZR1 rims) was a 12.8 @ 113 on Sumitomo's. My car put down 387/384. Other cars on the same dyno ran about what the numbers said as well.

I was disappointed in the car, but sold it before I could install 4.10's and get a decent tire out back. I do know that car did well against others from a roll, so the power had to be there. I just lacked getting the car out of the hole at the track without spinning too much. Plus the DA wasn't the greatest when I ran.

I am willing to bet your car has more in it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:57 AM   #13
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Just throwing it out there, when you add a cam almost all DR cars turn into a "on/off" switch when it comes to launching at the track. Stock cars (with bolt ons) can get away with a drag radial since they dont make any real power. But add a cam and a tune and its a different story.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:34 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by JL ws-6 View Post
DA has nothing do to with how suspension works, if anything the power it will not make will only help the situation. Take a car that can barely get off the line in 5000 da and throw same car on same track with -2000 and it likely will just be worse.

M6 cars, as a general statement never live up to the expectation when it comes to drag strip performance. You can spend ALOT of money, putting a bulletproof driveline and the best suspension under it but the trans, the non existant ability to be consistant and the fact that you will be breaking them, whether it be going thru clutches, breaking the trans, or some other driveline part are just a lost cause.

If, you want to drag race with a stick car, a gforce or liberty trans, and a slipper style clutch is the only way to go. Be ready to spend some money, and you won't be driving it on the street with said clutch, as that will eat it up FAST.

Is what it is, that's the truth of it. Accept it, and live with what the car's doing, or spend the money to change it. Really the only options.
I get all that...but a 6 speed m6 car with 390 rwhp should at least trap higher than 111. So wanted to gauge thoughts/ opinion on personal experience.

I get that about building up for the track for optimal results.

A guy i know has an 01 m6 ws6 with headers and boltons untuned and he traps 112 and has gone a best of 12.4 witha 60 ft of 1.8 i believe.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:45 PM   #15
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While i do agree with the above statement somewhat, i think you are failing to understand that he isnt looking to break into the 10s or anything like that. He is looking for low 12s or a high 11. And yes there are PLENTY of 6 speed cars running those times. And some even in the tens. This is WITHOUT spending thousands on a transmission. Just need to buy a better clutch. His car does have the ability to run great times without switching to an auto trans. Im sure that he enjoys driving his car on the streets just like many others.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:43 PM   #16
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While i do agree with the above statement somewhat, i think you are failing to understand that he isnt looking to break into the 10s or anything like that. He is looking for low 12s or a high 11. And yes there are PLENTY of 6 speed cars running those times. And some even in the tens. This is WITHOUT spending thousands on a transmission. Just need to buy a better clutch. His car does have the ability to run great times without switching to an auto trans. Im sure that he enjoys driving his car on the streets just like many others.
The LS7 clutch will work fine, especially since its only a few months old. Its not a level 3 but it will handle 390 whp. Promise. Been running the LS7 since 2008. It held up well last season & still working after plenty of 5k+ launches. I went with a level 3 when I replaced the bellhousing while I was in there this year. It is still in good shape though, I expected a lot worse when I pulled it apart. The OP just needs the driver mod.

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And there's nothing wrong with driving it on the street and enjoying it.. that's what the cars are meant for.

BUt, if you want a time slip, you have to drive it like you hate it, stole it and don't care about it. Just powershifting the car will up the mph into the 115 mph range I'd bet.
This is true.
Quote:
But, 125K on a stock tranny, kiss it goodbye. It's going to break. Don't be fooled..... most if not all the cars you see that are running the #'s that you are aiming for, are driving the cars in a way that is going to do damage. 10 bolt, it's done for sure driving it like you have to in order to get the timeslips you're after. Those fail at stock power with any kind of tire on it. put 390 rw to it and it's 100% done.
10 bolts are weak but if you slip the clutch on launch it will & can last. A lot of people break their 10 bolts because they do dumb **** like high rpm dumps & not addressing the wheelhop issue.
Quote:
Transmissions won't like it either.. power shifting the car is going to really put a beating on the driveline... I'd guess that one power shifted 1/4 mile pass is like 10 thousland miles of driving normally.
So why is this any different than racing with a stock A4? I have more faith in a stock M6 handling the abuse. It doesnt matter what trans your using, if it breaks be prepared to upgrading if you wanna race it.
Quote:
OP, drive it like you are trying to break it. Leave at 5000 rpm, ride the clutch out if you have to, you will get that one hail mary pass if that's what your'e after. Just be ready to call a tow truck.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:01 PM   #17
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And there's nothing wrong with driving it on the street and enjoying it.. that's what the cars are meant for.

BUt, if you want a time slip, you have to drive it like you hate it, stole it and don't care about it. Just powershifting the car will up the mph into the 115 mph range I'd bet.

But, 125K on a stock tranny, kiss it goodbye. It's going to break. Don't be fooled..... most if not all the cars you see that are running the #'s that you are aiming for, are driving the cars in a way that is going to do damage. 10 bolt, it's done for sure driving it like you have to in order to get the timeslips you're after. Those fail at stock power with any kind of tire on it. put 390 rw to it and it's 100% done. Transmissions won't like it either.. power shifting the car is going to really put a beating on the driveline... I'd guess that one power shifted 1/4 mile pass is like 10 thousland miles of driving normally.

OP, drive it like you are trying to break it. Leave at 5000 rpm, ride the clutch out if you have to, you will get that one hail mary pass if that's what your'e after. Just be ready to call a tow truck.
I thought the T-56 was bulletproof? Unless you start throwing gobs of power at it, isn't it one of the stronger points of our cars?
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:04 PM   #18
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While i do agree with the above statement somewhat, i think you are failing to understand that he isnt looking to break into the 10s or anything like that. He is looking for low 12s or a high 11. And yes there are PLENTY of 6 speed cars running those times. And some even in the tens. This is WITHOUT spending thousands on a transmission. Just need to buy a better clutch. His car does have the ability to run great times without switching to an auto trans. Im sure that he enjoys driving his car on the streets just like many others.
Exactly, I'm not trying to be John Force. It is my daily driver/weekend warrior. Just thought i'd be in the low 12's with a 1.9 60 ft at 390 rwhp. But trapping 111 after a 1.9 60 ft is not adding up.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:55 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Guy in MY 99TA View Post
not being an *** but the DRIVER MOD would be your best mod.... get more time in launching the car and get those shifts quicker.

I've seen multiple bolt-on 6 speed cars run 12.3s-12.4s with no suspension and the stock rear end.
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Originally Posted by BlackScreaminMachine View Post
Just throwing it out there, when you add a cam almost all DR cars turn into a "on/off" switch when it comes to launching at the track. Stock cars (with bolt ons) can get away with a drag radial since they dont make any real power. But add a cam and a tune and its a different story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL ws-6 View Post
And there's nothing wrong with driving it on the street and enjoying it.. that's what the cars are meant for.

BUt, if you want a time slip, you have to drive it like you hate it, stole it and don't care about it. Just powershifting the car will up the mph into the 115 mph range I'd bet.

But, 125K on a stock tranny, kiss it goodbye. It's going to break. Don't be fooled..... most if not all the cars you see that are running the #'s that you are aiming for, are driving the cars in a way that is going to do damage. 10 bolt, it's done for sure driving it like you have to in order to get the timeslips you're after. Those fail at stock power with any kind of tire on it. put 390 rw to it and it's 100% done. Transmissions won't like it either.. power shifting the car is going to really put a beating on the driveline... I'd guess that one power shifted 1/4 mile pass is like 10 thousland miles of driving normally.

OP, drive it like you are trying to break it. Leave at 5000 rpm, ride the clutch out if you have to, you will get that one hail mary pass if that's what your'e after. Just be ready to call a tow truck.
All of this right here.

First , get some line lock or let me drive your car with you in the passenger seat to show you how to do a proper foot brake burn out cuz you ask like 10 different people every time your out there " how do I do a burn out ?" Lol

Second , get some tires and a rearend that can hold up better than the 10 bolt and drive it like you stole it!!! Launch thay ****** and shift it at 6700 on your tack to account for human reaction with shifting a six speed.

Your 60 foot and you driving is killing your time.

Third, get a beater to drive everyday and stop putting miles and that nice bird. Will allow you drive it like you stole it and not have to worry about how you will get to work the next morning

you know where to find me if you need more of the same advice hahaha
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:26 AM   #20
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Well the tachs usually read slow so......
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