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Old 12-12-2006, 10:47 PM   #1
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Default Roll Bars/Cages

Ok, I just have a quick question. My car is currently mostly stock, but I have plans to make it into a 450-500rwhp street car/DD someday. eventually though, i'm gonna wanna take it to the track, and i'll prolly be running a time that will require a bar or full cage. My question is, is there any type of cage that I can use that will allow me to still have passengers in the rear seats, or do I pretty much have a 2-seater once I get a cage? Thanks for any advice!
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:01 PM   #2
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With that kind of hp you will not need a cage. You will not be running fast enough to require a cage.

You may however...pending timeslips.....need a roll bar. I would say run the car first to see if you even need a roll bar. This also depends on how strict your local track is.

You will still be able to use your back seats........
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:10 PM   #3
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I run a wolfe with swingouts and its plenty of cage for now.. no problem getting in and out of the car, then again i dont get in the back seat..
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:11 PM   #4
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Seriously, with 450-500rwhp I won't run sub 12 seconds(I think you need a full cage at 11.99 or faster)?

"You will still be able to use your back seats........"

Is that with the bar or full cage?
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09CPTN
Seriously, with 450-500rwhp I won't run sub 12 seconds(I think you need a full cage at 11.99 or faster)?

"You will still be able to use your back seats........"

Is that with the bar or full cage?
8 point is like 11.49

Full cage is 9.99 as far as I know...
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:01 AM   #6
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6pt is 11.99 or quicker i believe, and 9.99 or quicker is 10pt etc etc...

i daily drove my car for about 8 months with a 6pt in it, and i'm a big fella, not that bad at all, now daily driving with the new custom 10pt might be a different story.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:04 AM   #7
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I'm not worried about clearing the cage getting into the car myself, my main concern is losing the capability to carry 2 people(I say 2 because people rarely, if ever get to sit behind me, I'm 6'5" and like my leg room).
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:06 AM   #8
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i mak about 430 and run high 10.s
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:07 AM   #9
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i took a few road trips with the 6pt in my car with 3 people, now i didn't have a back seat so the passenger back there kinda laid down, but said it was actually more comfortable that way.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:33 AM   #10
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A roll bar is required in any convertible running 13.99 seconds or quicker in the quarter mile, and in other cars beginning at 11.99. The roll bar is accepted in vehicles running as quick as 10.00 second e.t., provided the stock firewall and floorboard is intact, other than for installation of wheel tubs. The rollbar must be constructed of minimum 1 inch o.d. x .118 inch wall mild steel tubing, or 1 x .083 chrome moly tubing, and must conform to the following diagram: Picture on webpage
NRHA Roll Bar
If the floor and/or firewall has been modified, then a full roll cage is required beginning at a 10.99 e.t. A full roll cage is required in any vehicle running 9.99 seconds or quicker, and any vehicle running 135 mph or faster (regardless of e.t.). The roll cage must be constructed of minimum 1 5/8 o.d.x .118 mild steel tubing, or 1 5/8 x .083 chrome moly tubing, and must conform to the following diagram:
NRHA Roll Bar
The roll cage of any vehicle running 9.99 or quicker, or 135 mph or faster, must also be certified by NHRA every 3 years, and have a serialized sticker affixed prior to participation.

from http://www.nhra.com/contacts/tech_faq.html
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:30 AM   #11
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you only need a 5 pt rollbar if you are running between 11.49 and 10.0... I dunno where you guys get this 11.99 crap from, it's not right.

And once you put it in, I'd never have anyone in the back seat, they will have a very hard time getting in the back seat if they can at all over the main crossbar of the main hoop.. and if anything were to ever happen, they'd never be able to get out of the car ( accident, car catches on fire, you'd have a barbacue)
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL ws-6
you only need a 5 pt rollbar if you are running between 11.49 and 10.0... I dunno where you guys get this 11.99 crap from, it's not right.

And once you put it in, I'd never have anyone in the back seat, they will have a very hard time getting in the back seat if they can at all over the main crossbar of the main hoop.. and if anything were to ever happen, they'd never be able to get out of the car ( accident, car catches on fire, you'd have a barbacue)
11.99 is NHRA tracks
11.49 is IHRA tracks
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:45 AM   #13
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09cptn if you are making 450-500 you WILL need a cage. with that hp the car should easily go into the low 11's- high 10's or better, just pending on the driver. all you need for that is a 6pt which was already discussed and i wouldnt get a 5pt cause i just think they look goofy and the extra door bar will strengthen up the chassis too.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:26 AM   #14
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Once a rollbar or cage goes in the car it IS a 2 seater. PERIOD. Yes you can keep the back seat in. Yes you can get passengers back there somehow. Yes they will be able to ride back there.

In the event of an accident, fast stop or whatever unforseen incident:

Yes they may be trapped. Yes they may stop forward progress with a 2" or so peice of pipe. Yes it is far more dangerous with the bars.

Net of this is if you don't care about the people you put in the back go ahead. If you do care, it's a 2 seater.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jldak318
09cptn if you are making 450-500 you WILL need a cage. with that hp the car should easily go into the low 11's- high 10's or better, just pending on the driver. all you need for that is a 6pt which was already discussed and i wouldnt get a 5pt cause i just think they look goofy and the extra door bar will strengthen up the chassis too.
There is a difference between a roll CAGE and roll BAR.

Just like the one guy said, 11.99 to 10.00 you need at least a 5 point roll bar with welded crossbrace (11.49-10.00 for IHRA)

If you are going 9.99 and quicker (or 135mph & quicker) you need a roll cage.
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:36 AM   #16
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You can get people back there but it's a contortionist exercise.

If you get into a front impact, the passenger's head/face is very likely going to hit the cross bar, hard.

Some roll bars are available with a removeable cross bar. (autopower maybe?)
But the fact that it's removable is an issue with some sanctioning.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:27 AM   #17
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I do believe the removable crossbar is a no-no period if you want the bar to be legal.

I'm having one done at a local chassis shop early february, I asked all teh questions, what is legal ad what is not, and that bar being removable was a no-no. I ended up having a 6 pt chromoly done, that if I ever feel the need to add onto to make it a 10 point I can. location of the rear bars also effects wether it is legal or not as well... going onto the rear wheel wells like alot of the kit ones do isn't exactly legal although most inspectors ignore that... there's alot of quirks, distance your helmet can be from the rear bar, what has to be padded, etc.etc.

If you are going ot have one done, talk to your local fab shop that has experience in doing them, or whoever you choose to do the job.

One thing I can tell you, 450 to 500 rw, if the car is an auto car with a any decent converter and has any sort of traction, you're gonna need it. If it's a stick car, you're probably gonna need it, but I have seen stock cars with over 480 rw not crack into the 11's... alot has to do with the operator.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:33 AM   #18
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Hell, my '94 Z28 needed a cage with 432/468 to the wheels.

car weighed 3190 (with cage) and driver @ 170
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:38 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL ws-6
you only need a 5 pt rollbar if you are running between 11.49 and 10.0... I dunno where you guys get this 11.99 crap from, it's not right.

And once you put it in, I'd never have anyone in the back seat, they will have a very hard time getting in the back seat if they can at all over the main crossbar of the main hoop.. and if anything were to ever happen, they'd never be able to get out of the car ( accident, car catches on fire, you'd have a barbacue)
This is correct, and I run an NHRA-owned track, so believe me on this one! You only need the main hoop with crossbrace/crossbar (can't be removable), 2 rear back bars (or one diagonal bar), and the driver side door bar (and yes it can be a swing-out) to be legal in a hardtop or t-top car (with t-tops in place) from 11.49 to 10.00 in NHRA legal trim. Some tracks may require different, but the NHRA rule book states these requirements.


I'm no expert in IHRA, but they used to be 11.49 and faster on the rollbar, and NHRA was 11.99 and faster. 2005 they (IHRA and NHRA) flip-floped the times. NHRA I know is 11.49 and faster in a hardtop, or 13.49 and faster in a convertible.

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Old 12-13-2006, 11:39 AM   #20
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my car made 445 at the tires, and weigh's 3580 with me in it... it would still need it with 50 less hp I think.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:39 AM
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