Front end travel, ride height, pinion angle, shock settings, etc.
12-05-2007, 08:12 PM
#1
Front end travel, ride height, pinion angle, shock settings, etc. Does lowering the front end of the car with coil overs (QA1 Hal R series fronts) transfer less or more weight?
Moving the spanner nut down, which decompresses the springs, does that lower or raise the car?
My lower control arms have rod ends on both ends and my panhard bar has rod and poly. What should I run the pinion angle at? -X?
If my driveshaft is bolted in, could I use the bottom flat surface on the torque arm mount to take the measurement? I would think so if it's perpendicular.
If I have a 26" tall front tire and a 30" tall rear tire, then how do I properly set the ride height since the rear tire is going to fill in the fender well more and make it higher in the rear?
How do I properly measure and adjust front end travel? At what points do you take your measurements?
Good starting point for QA1 R series fronts and Strange double adjustable rears?
Moving the spanner nut down, which decompresses the springs, does that lower or raise the car?
My lower control arms have rod ends on both ends and my panhard bar has rod and poly. What should I run the pinion angle at? -X?
If my driveshaft is bolted in, could I use the bottom flat surface on the torque arm mount to take the measurement? I would think so if it's perpendicular.
If I have a 26" tall front tire and a 30" tall rear tire, then how do I properly set the ride height since the rear tire is going to fill in the fender well more and make it higher in the rear?
How do I properly measure and adjust front end travel? At what points do you take your measurements?
Good starting point for QA1 R series fronts and Strange double adjustable rears?
12-05-2007, 08:35 PM
#2
Moving the spanne nut down lowers the car (unloads the spring).
-3* is a good starting point on the pinion angle.
Use the flat surface of the rearend/TA to measure the pinion angle
Measure from the ground up to the lip of the fender with the car sitting on a flat surface then raise the car from the K-Member until the lower control arms extend to their fullest distance. That's usually either when the travel limiters are tight or the wheels are just off the ground. Measure at the same distance again and the difference is the front end travel.
LOL. I hope I worded that right.
That's a lot of questions for one thread,but still good questions that might help someone else.
-3* is a good starting point on the pinion angle.
Use the flat surface of the rearend/TA to measure the pinion angle
Measure from the ground up to the lip of the fender with the car sitting on a flat surface then raise the car from the K-Member until the lower control arms extend to their fullest distance. That's usually either when the travel limiters are tight or the wheels are just off the ground. Measure at the same distance again and the difference is the front end travel.
LOL. I hope I worded that right.
That's a lot of questions for one thread,but still good questions that might help someone else.
12-05-2007, 09:31 PM
#3
I also forgot to ask, more pinion angle (lower the pinion), does that hit the tires harder or softer? I thought one of the things that determined pinion angle was what type of bushings you have. With solid/rod ends, you want less pinion angle because it will flex less.
Yes, that's how I did it, but it was different when I did it the 2nd time around and I'm guessing that's because the suspension isn't settled anymore.
Yes, that's how I did it, but it was different when I did it the 2nd time around and I'm guessing that's because the suspension isn't settled anymore.
12-05-2007, 10:58 PM
#4
I also forgot to ask, more pinion angle (lower the pinion), does that hit the tires harder or softer? I thought one of the things that determined pinion angle was what type of bushings you have. With solid/rod ends, you want less pinion angle because it will flex less.
Yes, that's how I did it, but it was different when I did it the 2nd time around and I'm guessing that's because the suspension isn't settled anymore.
Yes, that's how I did it, but it was different when I did it the 2nd time around and I'm guessing that's because the suspension isn't settled anymore.
Too much pinion angle really stresses the u-joints. In our cars I would never run over -3
What's the main issue, wheel standing?
Like I said before if it is hooking hard leave it alone and limit the front end and then stiffen the front shock until you get it to leave how you like.
12-05-2007, 11:11 PM
#5
[QUOTE=Dragaholic;8251382]Does lowering the front end of the car with coil overs (QA1 Hal R series fronts) transfer less or more weight?
I would think starting with the car lower in the front would give more suspension travel to transfer weight.
But if you have travel limiters the lower front end will have a lower center of gravity which should transfer weight less.
Moving the spanner nut down, which decompresses the springs, does that lower or raise the car?
Will lower the car.
My lower control arms have rod ends on both ends and my panhard bar has rod and poly. What should I run the pinion angle at? I would start at -2.
If my driveshaft is bolted in, could I use the bottom flat surface on the torque arm mount to take the measurement? I would think so if it's perpendicular.
Either the yoke or flat spot on the rear end.
If I have a 26" tall front tire and a 30" tall rear tire, then how do I properly set the ride height since the rear tire is going to fill in the fender well more and make it higher in the rear?
Misread this question, I would measure the car under the body on the sides on the door and have the front , measured from behind the front tire 1" lower than the rear measured just in front of the rear tire on the body.
Obviously you'll have to lower it a bit to do this, or you could lower it less but personally I don't like the way it looks riding high in the back.
How do I properly measure and adjust front end travel? At what points do you take your measurements?
ground to center of fender , jack the car in the center until there is no more suspension travel and you can see the weight starting to come off the tire. That's when you have no more travel, the rest is just the tire itself uncompressing.
Good starting point for QA1 R series fronts and Strange double adjustable rears?
If the car wheel stands I would start with at least #6, If not number 2 or 3, in the rear #5/#5 to start
I would think starting with the car lower in the front would give more suspension travel to transfer weight.
But if you have travel limiters the lower front end will have a lower center of gravity which should transfer weight less.
Moving the spanner nut down, which decompresses the springs, does that lower or raise the car?
Will lower the car.
My lower control arms have rod ends on both ends and my panhard bar has rod and poly. What should I run the pinion angle at? I would start at -2.
If my driveshaft is bolted in, could I use the bottom flat surface on the torque arm mount to take the measurement? I would think so if it's perpendicular.
Either the yoke or flat spot on the rear end.
If I have a 26" tall front tire and a 30" tall rear tire, then how do I properly set the ride height since the rear tire is going to fill in the fender well more and make it higher in the rear?
Misread this question, I would measure the car under the body on the sides on the door and have the front , measured from behind the front tire 1" lower than the rear measured just in front of the rear tire on the body.
Obviously you'll have to lower it a bit to do this, or you could lower it less but personally I don't like the way it looks riding high in the back.
How do I properly measure and adjust front end travel? At what points do you take your measurements?
ground to center of fender , jack the car in the center until there is no more suspension travel and you can see the weight starting to come off the tire. That's when you have no more travel, the rest is just the tire itself uncompressing.
Good starting point for QA1 R series fronts and Strange double adjustable rears?
If the car wheel stands I would start with at least #6, If not number 2 or 3, in the rear #5/#5 to start
12-06-2007, 06:36 AM
#6
Ok, I have a rod ends on both of my LCAs and running -3 degrees (down) on the rear end. I need to put it -1.5 to -2. But this is actually going to make it hit the tires harder?
Yes, main issue is wheel stands.
I believe my shocks (QA1 R series) technically have 15 settings, but aren't intended to go over 12. Would I be crazy to put them at 12 and work my way down?
So if lowering the spanner nut lowers the car and decompresses the spring, shouldn't that mean it will help with weight transfer because the it will have less momentum? I say this because the spring isn't compressed as much thus storing more energy, then if it's a little lower and the travel is limited, then there should be less energy to transfer.
Yes, main issue is wheel stands.
I believe my shocks (QA1 R series) technically have 15 settings, but aren't intended to go over 12. Would I be crazy to put them at 12 and work my way down?
So if lowering the spanner nut lowers the car and decompresses the spring, shouldn't that mean it will help with weight transfer because the it will have less momentum? I say this because the spring isn't compressed as much thus storing more energy, then if it's a little lower and the travel is limited, then there should be less energy to transfer.
12-06-2007, 02:42 PM
#7
Ok, I have a rod ends on both of my LCAs and running -3 degrees (down) on the rear end. I need to put it -1.5 to -2. But this is actually going to make it hit the tires harder?
Yes, main issue is wheel stands.
I believe my shocks (QA1 R series) technically have 15 settings, but aren't intended to go over 12. Would I be crazy to put them at 12 and work my way down?
So if lowering the spanner nut lowers the car and decompresses the spring, shouldn't that mean it will help with weight transfer because the it will have less momentum? I say this because the spring isn't compressed as much thus storing more energy, then if it's a little lower and the travel is limited, then there should be less energy to transfer.
Yes, main issue is wheel stands.
I believe my shocks (QA1 R series) technically have 15 settings, but aren't intended to go over 12. Would I be crazy to put them at 12 and work my way down?
So if lowering the spanner nut lowers the car and decompresses the spring, shouldn't that mean it will help with weight transfer because the it will have less momentum? I say this because the spring isn't compressed as much thus storing more energy, then if it's a little lower and the travel is limited, then there should be less energy to transfer.
It wouldn't be crazy to set the fronts at 12, worst case it will spin the tire.
I'd set the front travel at 2.5-3" to start.
I don't think lowering the spring will technically decompress it, you're simple lowering the base of the spring, if you raise the base it isn't compressing the spring more it will raise the car. The amount of weight on the spring should be the very close to the same, yes you can lower the hight of the spring and raise it, but weight on the car is the main factor in the amount the spring is compressed.
Technically I would think the lower the car gets in the front the more the spring will compress because the weight of the car will be shifted forward.
But lowering the front down some will lower the center of gravity and having the travel limiters set to 2-3" it should in theory wheelie less.
I would leave all of the chassis settings as is and start by tuning the front with the limiters and shocks, then after you see the effects you can try playing with the pinion angle a little. I'd run whatever pinion angle is between -1 to -3 and use which one produces the fastest 60 ft.
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Thats exactly what i was thinking!lol
12-06-2007, 03:34 PM
#10
When was I ever not nice? I sent him a PM, but he hasn't been on since yesterday afternoon. So he hasn't seen this thread or read my PM.
According from the measurements I took yesterday, I saw only 2" of travel. I wouldn't want to increase that if I was already wheeling.
My pinion angle (rear end only) was at -3 degrees.
I rechecked the front shock settings and they were at 4, so I should probably tighten up on them. I didn't recheck the rears.
I suppose I could run less air pressure to get more flex in the tire so that it won't react as fast.
According from the measurements I took yesterday, I saw only 2" of travel. I wouldn't want to increase that if I was already wheeling.
My pinion angle (rear end only) was at -3 degrees.
I rechecked the front shock settings and they were at 4, so I should probably tighten up on them. I didn't recheck the rears.
I suppose I could run less air pressure to get more flex in the tire so that it won't react as fast.
12-06-2007, 10:42 PM
#11
I checked the rears (Strange double adjustable). Both the compression and extension were set on 6. Not sure how many total clicks there are, I didn't want to try it and ruin the shock.
The limiters are where they need to be. 2" of travel. I just want to know if I should lower the car to help with the wheelies. The pinion angle is around -2 to 2.5 degrees (shitty angle finder).
I went ahead and put the front shocks at 8 just to be safe.
The limiters are where they need to be. 2" of travel. I just want to know if I should lower the car to help with the wheelies. The pinion angle is around -2 to 2.5 degrees (shitty angle finder).
I went ahead and put the front shocks at 8 just to be safe.
12-07-2007, 11:52 AM
#13
lowering the entire car will lower the center of gravity and should decrease the liklyhood of a wheelstand, but you have to lower the entire car, not just the front or back. And I'm sure you're in the same boat as most, if you lower the back you will hvae to cut and reweld in a portion of the rear flooring to clear the rear, redo all the rear suspenion geometry, etc.etc.
With a 2 step and travel limiters you should be able to keep the nose down, it's not like you have 2000 hp in the car.
With a 2 step and travel limiters you should be able to keep the nose down, it's not like you have 2000 hp in the car.
12-07-2007, 02:40 PM
#15
FormerVendor
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Why would turning your adjuster ***** one way and then the other to check the number of clicks hurt them? I don't see how that makes any sense at all. They are made to go all the way both ways.
12-07-2007, 02:53 PM
#16
I could be wrong with what I said about center of gravity hight changing with lowering, but I have a feeling this scientific formula and calculator will prove other wise.
http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=22
http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=22
12-07-2007, 02:53 PM
#17
I've been out of it for so long, I have forgotten a lot of things. I could of swore I read that it has X amount of clicks, but not to turn it past x amount of clicks. It may be for the QA1 shocks. I just wanted to make sure.
I called Strange and they said 9 clicks on the Strange rear double adjustables.
What I really want to know is on the front QA1 coil overs, if I lower it X amount, how much is it actually going to lower the car? Is it a 1 to 1 ratio? For instance, if I lower the nut 1", is it going to lower the car 1"?
I called Strange and they said 9 clicks on the Strange rear double adjustables.
What I really want to know is on the front QA1 coil overs, if I lower it X amount, how much is it actually going to lower the car? Is it a 1 to 1 ratio? For instance, if I lower the nut 1", is it going to lower the car 1"?
12-07-2007, 03:07 PM
#18
I recently raised my car some in the front on the coil over 1/2-5/8" and it came out closer to 1" at the fender.
Then I also took weight off the car about 140 pounds and now the front is even higher so I have to lower it again
I would go out and lower the car and measure it but my spanner wrench is at my buddy's house and he works shifts.
I won't be able to get it till Monday but if you want I'll measure how much lowering it 1/2", 3/4 and 1" at the coil over lowers it and take a measurement at each one if you can wait till then.
My car looks around the same hight in the front as yours I think, I want to lower mine more but I may just run a taller tire then lower it a bit so I don't lose so much ground clearance, gotta be easy on the headers
BTW my front tire is very close to 24 3/4" tall.
Then I also took weight off the car about 140 pounds and now the front is even higher so I have to lower it again
I would go out and lower the car and measure it but my spanner wrench is at my buddy's house and he works shifts.
I won't be able to get it till Monday but if you want I'll measure how much lowering it 1/2", 3/4 and 1" at the coil over lowers it and take a measurement at each one if you can wait till then.
My car looks around the same hight in the front as yours I think, I want to lower mine more but I may just run a taller tire then lower it a bit so I don't lose so much ground clearance, gotta be easy on the headers
BTW my front tire is very close to 24 3/4" tall.
12-07-2007, 03:11 PM
#19
LS1Tech Co-Founder
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QA1 = right tighty, 12 settings.
Get the car down, and pretty even. Madman also has some specific points about torque arms and lower control arm settings, but you'll have to ask him I forget them already DOH.
Get the car down, and pretty even. Madman also has some specific points about torque arms and lower control arm settings, but you'll have to ask him I forget them already DOH.