LS6 intake/ported TB vs FAST 90/90 ported
02-16-2009, 02:11 PM
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LS6 intake/ported TB vs FAST 90/90 ported finally bit the bullet on the FAST intake. got it for a good price considering it was already partially ported and came with other stuff.
got in touch with a shop up on the West coast about doing a before/after dyno session to get some definative numbers to compare the setup on a cam only engine.
i'll go through some background on the car
dyno after i had the cam installed, which was a 233/233 .589"/.589 112* Torquer V1.
car had lid, maf ends, udp, ported TB, ls6 intake, Flowtech LTs, orp, 3" dynomouth exhaust....stock clutch and rear end...as well as stock 16" rims (245/50/16s).
car made 382rwhp and aprox 375ftlbs of torque (hard to tell due to clutch slip)
since that dyno i've upgraded the following:
Spec 4 clutch with Fidanza alum flywheel, 3" true duals with magnaflow 4x9 mufflers, harland sharp 1.7 roller rockers, Meziere electric water pump, and swapped over to 17x11 ZR1s with 315 nitto555.
i had the shop run the car on the dyno for a baseline to check the WOT tune and to see the numbers.
the tune was halfway decent, but they only ran the car up to about 6100rpm. the torque had fallen off but the hp was barely climbing. it peaked out at 386rwhp, but we think it would have made 390hp pretty easily had it been reved to peak. mind you this was with the LS6 intake manifold.
after doing the runs, i pulled the manifold off the car and swapped on the ported FAST 90/90 intake manifold.
the car never came off the dyno, and was done on the same day.
first run was way lean, and after tweaking we got results that were quite surprising! not only was the car dead consistent...varying only 1-1.5hp peak, and less than 1ftlb of torque...even after getting heat soaked. but it also showed an impressive gain in across the ENTIRE rpm band.
ended up picking up ~11ftlbs peak, while shifting that peak down about 500rpm. in the low rpm it gained from 5-8ftlbs of torque from about 3000 to just over 4000rpm.
for the Hp curve, it gained aprox 18hp peak....this is assuming it would have made 390rwhp had the baseline pulled higher.
but even going by the peak that the baseline made...at 6100rpm the FAST made +15hp and +12ftlbs of torque over the LS6.
while my cam is relatively large, it not BIG by any means. and the grind is a fairly old design, not even sold any more. bigger cam only cars could see similar if not higher gains, particularly if you rev higher. i was surprised the hp peaked where it did...and am GLAD. really shows where the stock heads start to fall off.
things to consider:
- the intake was initially lightly ported by LPE, but they left some big "steps" just inside the runners. so i cleaned those up and smoothed them out. this was NOT a high dollar custom port job! intake was never separated, and my touch up was done in 2 hrs with a dremel.
- and this is all on STOCK HEADS
I'm not sure about issues with sponsorship, but the shop is extremely good and they were VERY helpful in getting these numbers.
not only did they give me a GREAT price, they were helpful in getting the intake swapped over, and the car tuned and dialed in. the part throttle manners of the car are greatly improved and the peak power numbers speak for themselves.
PM me for the shop name and contact info
got in touch with a shop up on the West coast about doing a before/after dyno session to get some definative numbers to compare the setup on a cam only engine.
i'll go through some background on the car
dyno after i had the cam installed, which was a 233/233 .589"/.589 112* Torquer V1.
car had lid, maf ends, udp, ported TB, ls6 intake, Flowtech LTs, orp, 3" dynomouth exhaust....stock clutch and rear end...as well as stock 16" rims (245/50/16s).
car made 382rwhp and aprox 375ftlbs of torque (hard to tell due to clutch slip)
since that dyno i've upgraded the following:
Spec 4 clutch with Fidanza alum flywheel, 3" true duals with magnaflow 4x9 mufflers, harland sharp 1.7 roller rockers, Meziere electric water pump, and swapped over to 17x11 ZR1s with 315 nitto555.
i had the shop run the car on the dyno for a baseline to check the WOT tune and to see the numbers.
the tune was halfway decent, but they only ran the car up to about 6100rpm. the torque had fallen off but the hp was barely climbing. it peaked out at 386rwhp, but we think it would have made 390hp pretty easily had it been reved to peak. mind you this was with the LS6 intake manifold.
after doing the runs, i pulled the manifold off the car and swapped on the ported FAST 90/90 intake manifold.
the car never came off the dyno, and was done on the same day.
first run was way lean, and after tweaking we got results that were quite surprising! not only was the car dead consistent...varying only 1-1.5hp peak, and less than 1ftlb of torque...even after getting heat soaked. but it also showed an impressive gain in across the ENTIRE rpm band.
ended up picking up ~11ftlbs peak, while shifting that peak down about 500rpm. in the low rpm it gained from 5-8ftlbs of torque from about 3000 to just over 4000rpm.
for the Hp curve, it gained aprox 18hp peak....this is assuming it would have made 390rwhp had the baseline pulled higher.
but even going by the peak that the baseline made...at 6100rpm the FAST made +15hp and +12ftlbs of torque over the LS6.
while my cam is relatively large, it not BIG by any means. and the grind is a fairly old design, not even sold any more. bigger cam only cars could see similar if not higher gains, particularly if you rev higher. i was surprised the hp peaked where it did...and am GLAD. really shows where the stock heads start to fall off.
things to consider:
- the intake was initially lightly ported by LPE, but they left some big "steps" just inside the runners. so i cleaned those up and smoothed them out. this was NOT a high dollar custom port job! intake was never separated, and my touch up was done in 2 hrs with a dremel.
- and this is all on STOCK HEADS
I'm not sure about issues with sponsorship, but the shop is extremely good and they were VERY helpful in getting these numbers.
not only did they give me a GREAT price, they were helpful in getting the intake swapped over, and the car tuned and dialed in. the part throttle manners of the car are greatly improved and the peak power numbers speak for themselves.
PM me for the shop name and contact info
02-16-2009, 03:13 PM
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Glad to see the difference. Now why didn't you seperate the intake and do a full port. There is a lot rough area inside that needs sanded and contoured.
At any rate nice results !!!
At any rate nice results !!!
02-16-2009, 03:23 PM
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judging from the results....i'm not convinced its worth the time and hassle.
both hassle of doing the work and the chance of improper sealing.
with gains like that on cam only....i can't see gaining MUCH more by dismanteling the thing.
what i like about this comparison is that its same car, same mods, same day, same dyno...and nearly the same tuning (similar a/f).
about as apples to apples as you can get.
would have loved to try out some different TBs, or possibly a 85mm or 100mm Lid and bigger MAF.
but some other time i guess.
both hassle of doing the work and the chance of improper sealing.
with gains like that on cam only....i can't see gaining MUCH more by dismanteling the thing.
what i like about this comparison is that its same car, same mods, same day, same dyno...and nearly the same tuning (similar a/f).
about as apples to apples as you can get.
would have loved to try out some different TBs, or possibly a 85mm or 100mm Lid and bigger MAF.
but some other time i guess.
02-16-2009, 06:51 PM
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I was just saying that the turbulence of the intake air is caused by the rough edges in the runners. Maybe you got one that was pretty clean already, but some people that have dismantled the intake and smooted everything, some even did a little shaping to enhance flow further (pro port job) and have gotten everything out of it.
My comment wasn't a knock, just a question and you answered it. Thanks, and nice results. Especially considering it was same day, same car, same dyno THANKS !!
My comment wasn't a knock, just a question and you answered it. Thanks, and nice results. Especially considering it was same day, same car, same dyno THANKS !!
02-16-2009, 07:49 PM
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didn't take it as a knock.....don't worry.
the comparison was why i did this...i've always wanted to do a good comparison with upgrades...this was my chance to do a highly debated mod.
the comparison was why i did this...i've always wanted to do a good comparison with upgrades...this was my chance to do a highly debated mod.
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02-16-2009, 08:50 PM
#8
We have somewhat of a simillar set-up with the exception of me having a MS4 cam and I had a BBK 80mm. TB and then swithched to a 90/90 unported setup. I picked up 16 hp and 1 tq. My final numbers were 403/372. I have a 99z M6 as well with stock heads.
02-16-2009, 09:26 PM
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port that bad boy.
it was really easy to do. just go slow and be careful, even a little porting will help the power.
hard to believe that my old torquer made more power than your MS4
it was really easy to do. just go slow and be careful, even a little porting will help the power.
hard to believe that my old torquer made more power than your MS4
02-16-2009, 10:57 PM
#12
awesome results exactly what i was looking for...hoping for about the same with my ported 92 in my cam only car...just need the time to install it and get it tuned...
02-17-2009, 07:32 AM
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install was really not very hard.
i used the directions off of the FAST website.
i'll say the biggest issue i could see for the DIY-at-home guy is you need a special tool to disconnect the fuel line going to the fuel rail. not sure how hard that would be without the "tool"...since the shop had one for me to use.
having never pulled an intake, and talking my time, and having to jump around on the lift...while it was off the ground
....it took me about 4 hours. and i had to climb down from the lift, and walk across the shop to the tool box if i needed something new.
and NO i DID NOT break the oil sending unit....
i used the directions off of the FAST website.
i'll say the biggest issue i could see for the DIY-at-home guy is you need a special tool to disconnect the fuel line going to the fuel rail. not sure how hard that would be without the "tool"...since the shop had one for me to use.
having never pulled an intake, and talking my time, and having to jump around on the lift...while it was off the ground
....it took me about 4 hours. and i had to climb down from the lift, and walk across the shop to the tool box if i needed something new.and NO i DID NOT break the oil sending unit....
02-18-2009, 03:48 PM
#16
Yeah thats true but you have some key parts that I don't have contributing to me not having as much power as you such as underdrive pully, 160 thermestat, td set-up (I have a y-pipe and loudmouth 2 catback), your fast was ported, electric water pump, and a aluminum flywheel (mine is steel with spec 3+). So with those given mods added to mine Im sure I would pick up an easy 10 HP if not more but your dyno was very impresive though! Glad to see good power can be made even with the crappy 99 stock heads. I might have to try to mess with the dremel tool a little after seing this.
02-18-2009, 04:58 PM
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Hey Jeff , does your car hook at all with those tires or is it time for some ET streets ? Nice numbers , now give that car what it really needs...... the BOTTLE ! 
02-18-2009, 06:26 PM
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car hooks pretty good for what it is...a street car.
dumping it hard obviously is pointless...but i don't abuse the tires too much since i'm on the 10bolt.
as for nitrous....no thanks. besides with the damage that hose clamp did (got sucked into the engine and scarred the pistons) i can't run juice....would cause hot spots and likely burn a hole in the piston.
can't afford a new short block just yet...besides....who needs nitrous in the keys?? we only have one road! and 400rwhp is enough to pass most cars on the road.
dumping it hard obviously is pointless...but i don't abuse the tires too much since i'm on the 10bolt.
as for nitrous....no thanks. besides with the damage that hose clamp did (got sucked into the engine and scarred the pistons) i can't run juice....would cause hot spots and likely burn a hole in the piston.
can't afford a new short block just yet...besides....who needs nitrous in the keys?? we only have one road! and 400rwhp is enough to pass most cars on the road.
02-18-2009, 07:43 PM
#20