Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Thought I'd share this with you guys...

This is a customers dyno graph from a set-up I specified for him. His wants were a "look at me idle" and as much usable power as possible without going overboard and run on pump 91 octane fuel.

His combination consists of:
As Cast 220cc TFS cylinder heads milled to produce 11.2:1-11.3:1 compression
Stock un-ported LS6 intake, stock throttle body, stock MAF
SLP Lid
Pacesetter 1x3/4" headers
TSP 3" True Duals
My custom camshaft: 234/239 .612/.610 112+3 LXL/HUC

Numbers ended up at 441rwhp and 409rwtq but take a look at the torque curve and the average power it made...


It hangs onto peak torque from 4600rpm to 5600rpm and the graph is peaky by no means. I would say that he is getting some valve float at 6200-6300rpm. We discovered after he got the camshaft that his springs were not the open and seat pressure that he thought they were, so I suggested to try and shim them for more seat pressure to ward off the valve float it looks like he is running into to that is keeping him from a little more top end hp.

Overall he is very happy with the cam and says that it pulls like a freight train. As you can see he gained nearly 130rwhp from just the head and cam swap alone and this was on a Eddy Current Dyno Jet.

He just picked up a Fast 102/92 set-up and we're hoping to see another 20rwhp from the intake swap to put him over 460rwhp on a stingier dyno, not as bad as a Mustang Dyno or Dyno Dynamics, but won't read as high as a non loaded Dyno Jet.

We're also contemplating a 85mm MAF, a 98mm lid, Chris1313 ram-air and an under drive pulley to put him well into the 475-480rwhp zone if not more.

All in all I am pretty pleased with the results and anyone else looking to duplicate this could easily best these numbers with a set of Kooks or ARH 1x7/8" headers, UDP, EWP and a set of CNC TFS 215's.

Thanks for looking and here is an idle clip

fatmat80

very nice results!!
what valve springs is the customer running?

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

I am honestly not sure, I will get with him and ask him to stick his head in here if he can.

I spoke with Brian Tooley earlier and he recommends 3/8" push rods while using his Max Pressure springs since they have higher open pressures which can pogo stick a 5/16" push rod once you get into those higher spring rates especially with a heavier valve-train.

I'm very anxious to see what the Fast 102/92 does, but I want to clear up this valve control problem soon after as I bet there is another 5-10rwhp hiding in the valve-train itself.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

I just spoke with the customer and he does indeed have the TFS springs with nearly 420lbs of open pressure.

He had two different sets of springs and the other were a set of Lunati's that only had 375-380lbs of open pressure which I had confused with what he actually used.

I'm really thinking now that it's push rod deflection causing this with the heavier open spring pressures being used.

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

I was running 5/16 push rods with 480ish lbs at .646 lift with my AFR head set up. Cam was 245@.050 and .646 on the intake. Held clean to a peak hp at 6,800. No saying it was the best solution, but never had a problem with it.

I am however having issues with the new heads/cam and PRC's .650 springs. Cam is less aggressive being .629 lift and 254@.050. After pulling a few springs they are 145 on the seat and only 409@.650. I think in my case they are bouncing off the seat. Same push rods, same lifters, .050 preload on the intakes and .060 preload on the exhaust.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

That is the same preload I suggested on this customers car. Do you happen to know the weight of the valves you used in the AFR heads? Did you use aftermarket roller rockers?

Even though the lift may be less on your current cam the lobes may be more aggressive than your old camshaft. The only way to really determine if they are less aggressive is by comparing total duration, @.050, @.200, tappet lift, minor intensity and major intensity to name a few.

I also just noticed that the new cam gives up nothing to the stock cam from the time the pull is started to the time it was shut down.

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

I would have to post all the info on both cams, but trust me, the ramps on this new one are softer

I bought the AFR's back in 2005 or 2006 new. Tony set them up with the light weight intake valves, but I don't rember exactly what those weighed, I think the 2.08 valve were around 105g . I did double check the spring pressure, install height etc.

The vavles in the PRC heads are right around the 110g mark.

Stock rockers with upgraded trunions in both.


Hope that helps.

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

I would really like to know why it is falling off at 6300rpm. I'm not sure on the exact spring pressure but I know they were well over 400. I will call the machine ship in the morning and find out if they know still. I have the rockers set at 1 turn past 0 lash which puts the preload at .060". I do bet that if I cant get the stability problem under control it should pick up 5-10whp easy. As I said that we moved the install height up would that have any effect on the open pressure of the spring? The TFS retainers were replaced with Crane 144944-16 retainers

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Yes it does thank you for the shared information. That's a lot lighter than the TFS valves that come with these heads. I would say that is the only downfall if you could even call it a downfall of a TFS head set-up is the heavier valve weight and the weight of the roller rockers.
We will get it figured out Brian. I'm confident that with this slight issue resolved that you would of squeaked out 445-450rwhp like we intended.

Anxious as you are probably to see what the Fast intake does.

20ws601

I had the ls3 hollow stems cut down, no complaints here 469 on a mustang with a fast 92.

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Just dropped the car off at the tuner. I should have a new graph up by the end of the day.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Maybe i missed it,

But is this combo using the stock GM rockers or aftermarket rollers??

Pretty damn impressive that it didnt give up anything compaired to stock cam... would be interesting to see what the fast produces....

This combo still on stock gears and 10bolt?

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

I'm using Comp Pro magnum 1.75RR and yes its a 10bolt with 3.42's (for the next month or so).

bwolfZ28

iTrader: (40)

Martin: Would preload around .090" resolve the issue or do you think that is irrelevant?

Killer5.3

iTrader: (1)

What exhaust lobe is that HUC?

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

If I am having problem with mine currently, 145lbs on the seat and 409lb @ .650 (only lifting to .629 and did not check there), lighter valves, stock rockers, I'd say that your pressures are not enough. And I am leaning towards it being more of a seat pressure like what I am seeing.

I have had Tony Mamo explain that he sees more problems with too little seat pressure before too little open pressure. Basically the valve bounces off the seat before it gets lofted off the lobe. David Vizard also talks about this in his valve train book.

Looking at mine, shimming them .015 was gonna gain me less than 15lbs of seat pressure. That is why I am buying different springs and shimming those up. I should have 180ish on the seat and 470ish open.

My springs are not that old. Couple hundred miles, 10ish dyno pulls and 15ish passes at the track. They are down 60lbs at .650..

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

Lil Ss,
Are you running TFS heads or afr??

Thought i had read somewhere to be below 410 lbs @ .650 with stock rockers.... but could be wrong or have misread it..

Im running 386# at .625 with my TFS 220 Ls1 heads on the Lq9

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

Neither, I have a set of PRC's on the motor now. I think spring pressure is relative to the complete combo. Rockers are only one piece of the puzzle. Valve weight, lifter weight, push rod weight, spring weight, retainer weight, weight of the locks, rocker ratio, rpm.. All of that determines what spring you need. There is more to it than a simple answer of stock rocker, below 410lbs.

blackonblacksls

iTrader: (1)

I think tooley has said don't get crazy with spring pressure on stock rockers to save valve tips.

06X6spdGTO

iTrader: (6)

THIS ^^

Kind of what I was referring to... and the change in head design with valve angles.

But Im sure there is ALOT that goes into a valvetrain more than just rockers...