TFP

There is also a problem with the widespread acceptance of ignorance. You may have a point, but if someone is right, does it matter how they say it?

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Yea man let me know when you get your stuff back. I'm down for that.


There is some choices for intakes now......that's a good thing for us!!

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Guys,

I don't have alot of time now but wanted to quickly throw my opinion in the ring here. First off its awesome Ryne took the time to do this test and do his best to keep all the variables to a minimum. That always adds time and can be challenging trying to achieve copy cat runs with only a parts swap.

Let's talk about the results....the largest problem I see with them is the simple fact MSD may have inadvertently overstated potential gains and led people to believe they created the magic intake manifold that was going to be 30+ better than a FAST. Having spent possibly more time than anyone on the planet with my head up all the various FAST intake designs, I can tell you that the LS7 design is pretty good.....in fact its very good only second IMO to their LSXRT design (the huge "truck" intake).

In fact barring a design that would NOT fit under a cowl of a Vette or FBody etc., my opinion was there was no way the gains previously mentioned in advertising would be achievable. Not with a low port height intake and not with a manifold design that wouldnt give away alot on the bottom to get there.

Now if FAST or someone else came out with an LSXRT version of the LS7 I could believe 30 more ponies might be found with little to no loss of low/midrange power because its a straight shot from the bellmouth to the intake port and a very efficient design....the only problem being it wont fit under the hood of any production car. Those who have never seen one apart can appreciate the picture below and realize its just a very high port cross ram design....very efficient....and with the right port work bordering on intake manifold perfection.






On the bright side.....I feel the results posted by the MSD intake within the confines of a manifold forced to fit under the cowl of most production cars is/was very impressive. An 8-10 HP increase with very modest losses in the bottom of the curve is something to be happy about. Its actually quite the achievement because IMO the FAST LS7 is a well designed piece so you don't have a whole lot of room left if your dealing with an intake that's just as user friendly.

Had they advertised say "12 HP better than the leading competitor" and landed exactly where they did in this test (slightly shy of that), it would have been hailed a home run IMO.....expectations were simply too high and the results were almost a given to disappoint.

Im keeping my eye on the upcoming Vararam design....while Im not a big fan (aesthetically) of the intake manifold covering the entire engine (or so it seems), from the standpoint of functionality it looks like a very promising design and the results will certainly be interesting. Not looking for anything huge here but another solid baby step over the MSD will offer the consumers another solid choice. Maybe that forces all of them to get a little more aggressive on price.....who knows but the more players that get involved the better it is for you guys.

The medium runner FAST will also be interesting but I'm guessing the losses across the lower and middle part of the curve might put some people off....especially if the peak gains are only in line with the MSD which managed to mute most of the trade offs.

Anyway.....exciting stuff....the intake manifold market for the LS performance community has been quiet for many years....its high time we have some new stuff to get excited about and help propel our performance to levels not available previously....it should help set the bar a little higher for guys like myself that want to wring all they can from their particular combination.

Will be keeping my eye out for more independent results which I expect we will be seeing soon



Cheers,
Tony

01MAROONz2890

thans for the opinion tony, do you feel that the fast cathedral version and the msd cathedral version will be on the same planar difference as far as hp goes or are the designs too different? or do you think the ls7 heads or the amount of mods on here made the difference. In otherw ords would you expect these gains on a cam only ls1/2/6?

1989GTA

I wonder what Tony can do on porting a MSD intake manifold? That would be interesting.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Honestly I would be talking out my you know what if I wagered an opinion at this point. Maybe the cathedral picks up more that the LS7....IMO its not as optimal out of the box (the FAST cathedral) and there may be more "room" there but who knows....its all just speculation and ultimately depends on the time they invested in the design of the MSD

Have to get my hands on one....numerous people have inquired about my porting them....doubt it will be long before I have one on the bench!

-Tony

93Polo

iTrader: (5)

Speaking of cowl clearance is the MSD any better than the FAST 102s? It gets tight in a C5.

99Wu8Tx

So i dont know much but i dont get why everyone seems to be so upset over 10Hp.

It always seemed to me the next step up is always 10 hp?
Ls1 to ls6 10 hp?
Ls6 to 92 10?
92 to 102 10?
102 to msd 10?

I know thats over simplifying things

texas racer

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...nifold-at-lme/

neverstop

sorry to bump an ancient thread here but has anyone tested one of these on a >650whp boosted setup? I've had mixed luck with FAST intakes on boosted setups and am on the stock ls7 right now but would consider upgrading to this MSD If there were some good gains to be had and the reliability was 100% perfect.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Check out the results of one of my ported MSD's on a customers cam only C6Z....with just the swap to my ported MSD and a 102 TB, he picked up 50+ RWHP. Before you call BS also see documentation on the 4+ MPH trap speed he also picked up at a track he has 1000 time slips from!

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...d-results.html

I have ported over a half dozen of these now and its a superior design from the aspect of runner design/performance compared to the FAST.....I dont think the fit and finish is as good, and much like the FAST needs some loving with a grinder to unlock its full potential.....but properly ported, this intake just flat kicks azz!



-Tony

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

You mean something has worse fit and finish than the FAST? Is that possible?

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Honestly the FAST 102 is a much better design than the older FAST intakes.....a landslide victory better.

With the MSD I'm literally reworking the injector tunnels when I port them in addition to the actual flow paths of the intake (probably worth some power due to a clean shot of atomized fuel). I think they could have done a better job designing the top shell gasket also....its a little "hokey" but it works. They were trying to make one gaskets do the job of nine IMO but like I said....it works.

The manifold has it where it counts....with a little loving its a killer piece like I said

-Tony

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Hmmm, interesting. The injector placement was one thing that I found odd, but I'm not an intake designer.

Do you think there is much to be gained on the cathedral port version?

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

For the record, I've got a cathedral port version being fed 16psi onto a 416ls3 motor.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Being forcefed probably makes up for a lot of issues.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Honestly I never paid the cathedral version much attention as the apples to apples unported numbers were a little better with the FAST but I'm sure it could benefit from some hand porting because the construction of all the intakes in question is/are extremely similar.

The real home run from MSD is the LS7 manifold....unfortunately the lowest volume player of them all which I find kind of ironic.....they should have spent that time on a good LS3 intake and they would have cornered a huge market share with that.

If you have some downtime over the winter and want to send me your intake shoot me a PM and we can work out all the details

The results from the porting with your combo would be interesting without a doubt



-Tony

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

My car goes into hibernation with the first snowfall, which here north of philly is usually early december, so I may take you up on that offer.

gnx7

iTrader: (28)

Ryne- Can you share any more insight on these using them on 416+ cubic inch setups? Have you found them to be better than the FAST102 for an LS7?

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

"12hp more than the competitor" was likely on an engine dyno...calculates about spot on to 10rwhp diff. If anything, this confirms MSD claims are spot on.