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690 FWHP DLRE, MMS, Cam Motion, LLR, FAST 102 W MID LENGTH RUNNERS
The graph below is from the WesTech Dyno yesterday.
Only Change is MAMOFIED FAST 102 W/ MID LENGTH
RUNNERS, and different DYNO LOL!
To begin the FAST 102 DID NOT lose 40 HP compared
to the Victor Jr. The previous dyno was very "hot & happy"
as evidenced by 583 lb ft @ 6000 RPM VS 543 lb ft for
the FAST @ 5400 RPM.
The previous torque numbers did not make sense given
Discplacement, Compression, and Cam Timing.
The results 690 HP from 7100-7300 still holding 682 @ 7600 RPM
(The limit for the factory C5 computer) was exactly what I
was targeting. 700 would have been nice and with 1 more
point of comp would have added 12-15 (2%) but was more
than I wanted to run with pump gas and a bottle of octane
boost for insurance. The engine makes 500 lb ft or more from
4500-7200 RRM , 540 LB FT from 5400-6400 RPM.
Wanted to give a quick public thanks to Steve Bruhle, Mgr
and Dyno Operator, Eric his tuner and the rest of the Team
at WesTech they were Extremely Professional, Efficient &
Courteous. I lucked out going on right after Tony came
of with a 440" LS so hook up was all good to go except
for the dry-sump. As the engine was already broken in
previously on the "happy" Dyno a warm-up was done
in about 15 minutes and it seemed like Eric was able
to do the EFI power tune in about another 15 minutes,
with pulls and adjustments in increasing 500 RPM limits,
3500-5000,3500-5500,3500-6000,3500-6500,3500-7000,
and finally 3500-7600 RPM, There were 4 pulls from
3500-7600 the first 684, the last 690 with small timing
adds (33* last providing the best #) and fuel adjustments.
Fuel used was VP MS109, don't think this added much
over MS101 on previous dyno, (much more comp,
boost or power added needed to benefit IMO)
I will tune again on installation in my C5 (6-9 months
unfortunately) with both MS109 & pump gas (91 here
in Nor Cal)
Hio, this is the same engine & details as "727 FWHP........."
with the Vic Jr carb set-up used for break-in changed to the
FAST 102 W/ Mid Length Runners and run on a Modern
Digital Superflow VS the much older and "happier"
analog Superflow dyno. I think it had vacuum tubes.
There was no graph with the carb dyno, however the horsepower
RPM peaks are nearly identical 7200 +-, carb was not run beyond
7200 due to low fuel and other issues with sensors etc. Torque
peak 600 RPM earlier with FAST 5400 RPM VS 6000.Carb drops
53lb ft from 6000-7200, 583-530, FAST drops 40 from
5400-7200, 543-502, remember carb #s are at least 30-40+ "HIGH"!!
If one would plot a curve, carb is narrower and steeper.
Last edited by NAVYBLUE210; 04-09-2017 at 12:42 PM.
I think its funny no one has touched much on the dyno discrepancy this post brings to light in a huge way....a 40 HP difference in power and torque is huge!
I had always suspected Dan's numbers were inflated....the torque was a dead give away....far too many ft/lbs per cubic inch and once the torque is suspect its all suspect as HP is just a function of the math.
Yet another thread that highlights the fact you cant compare results from different dynos's.....engine or chassis....no different than flow bench figures.....you always have to have the same testing equipment and even that isn't infallible.
I was looking forward to the test at Westech....I have dyno'ed more engines there than I can remember and getting to 650 HP with a naturally aspirated smallblock is impressive. In fact the day before Dan tested (when I ran my 440 there), they had a 540 CID BBC that just came off the dyno that made 650 HP. It made 900 and some change on a 300 shot but man.....to see this 700 lb behemoth of an engine only produce 650 HP.....wow....it was soft (customers excuse....they designed it for nitrous).
Anyway.....I also have to commend Dan for airing his dirty laundry (aka happy dyno results) for the world to see. To be honest I think most people would have kept quiet in an effort to retain their "hero status" from the previous dyno (even though they knew it was false having the opportunity to dyno on known and very popular dyno weeks later like Dan did). Call me cynical but I wager most wouldn't have shared the lower numbers.....curious if you guys would tend to agree but either way kudos to Dan for setting the record straight and let nothing be taken away from what was truly accomplished that day at Westech.
Flirting with 700 HP (on an honest dyno) with 394 cubic inches and having a power curve this flat and sexy is really a big accomplishment. This engine would have an ideal shiftpoint beyond where Dan has the capacity to control it with the OEM computer. We were discussing how the same combo on a tighter LSA or simply the same cam and more cubic inches would have made more sense bringing in more usable power and torque sooner and still carrying towards his 75-7600 target. Of course we are playing Monday morning quarterback but we have the luxury of examining the results and learning from them now and that's cool.
Anyway....cheers to one of the sexiest power and torque curves I have ever seen and as I mentioned in the original thread discussing this build.....none of this is/was an accident. Dan sweated every detail of this build for over two years (three perhaps?) and he spared little expense in building it but its not so much about the money as it is picking the right parts that work together. I know alot of engines that cubic dollars were thrown at it but the results were so-so because the combination just wasn't right. Money clearly comes into play but spending that money in the right places is even more important. We had many conversations about this build (I'll go on record saying I pleaded to have him build it a little larger....LOL) and its so good to finally see it all come together and work as well or slightly better than anyone involved hoped. Actually at the end of the day it met the best of our expectations and that's not always easy to do or accomplish.
Kudos for the results and more kudos for sharing the real numbers off the Westech dyno. When I found out about them I really didnt just assume Dan would post and when he said he was I shared with him that I felt that was a stand up guy kind of move and good for the community to learn from and hammer home how comparing dyno results from different equipment is really just hypothetical at best.
That Fast intake getting the job did!! Good way to shuffle up LS1tech with your build. After all the Fast 102 intake made 10 more ft lbs of torque over the MSD intake in Hot Rod Magazine. MSD intake only made 1 hp over the Fast intake .... You my close freind made the right choice.
That Fast intake getting the job did!! Good way to shuffle up LS1tech with your build. After all the Fast 102 intake made 10 more ft lbs of torque over the MSD intake in Hot Rod Magazine. MSD intake only made 1 hp over the Fast intake .... You my close freind made the right choice.
Well this is an ls3 port and MSD doesn't make an intake for it... and it's a mid runner not a long runner...
I've seen the MSD make almost 10 more hp on a cathedral setup BUT it is a higher rpm intake. If you want to be shifting at 6500 then it's not the intake for you
I think its funny no one has touched much on the dyno discrepancy this post brings to light in a huge way....a 40 HP difference in power and torque is huge!
I had always suspected Dan's numbers were inflated....the torque was a dead give away....far too many ft/lbs per cubic inch and once the torque is suspect its all suspect as HP is just a function of the math.
Yet another thread that highlights the fact you cant compare results from different dynos's.....engine or chassis....no different than flow bench figures.....you always have to have the same testing equipment and even that isn't infallible.
I was looking forward to the test at Westech....I have dyno'ed more engines there than I can remember and getting to 650 HP with a naturally aspirated smallblock is impressive. In fact the day before Dan tested (when I ran my 440 there), they had a 540 CID BBC that just came off the dyno that made 650 HP. It made 900 and some change on a 300 shot but man.....to see this 700 lb behemoth of an engine only produce 650 HP.....wow....it was soft (customers excuse....they designed it for nitrous).
Anyway.....I also have to commend Dan for airing his dirty laundry (aka happy dyno results) for the world to see. To be honest I think most people would have kept quiet in an effort to retain their "hero status" from the previous dyno (even though they knew it was false having the opportunity to dyno on known and very popular dyno weeks later like Dan did). Call me cynical but I wager most wouldn't have shared the lower numbers.....curious if you guys would tend to agree but either way kudos to Dan for setting the record straight and let nothing be taken away from what was truly accomplished that day at Westech.
Flirting with 700 HP (on an honest dyno) with 394 cubic inches and having a power curve this flat and sexy is really a big accomplishment. This engine would have an ideal shiftpoint beyond where Dan has the capacity to control it with the OEM computer. We were discussing how the same combo on a tighter LSA or simply the same cam and more cubic inches would have made more sense bringing in more usable power and torque sooner and still carrying towards his 75-7600 target. Of course we are playing Monday morning quarterback but we have the luxury of examining the results and learning from them now and that's cool.
Anyway....cheers to one of the sexiest power and torque curves I have ever seen and as I mentioned in the original thread discussing this build.....none of this is/was an accident. Dan sweated every detail of this build for over two years (three perhaps?) and he spared little expense in building it but its not so much about the money as it is picking the right parts that work together. I know alot of engines that cubic dollars were thrown at it but the results were so-so because the combination just wasn't right. Money clearly comes into play but spending that money in the right places is even more important. We had many conversations about this build (I'll go on record saying I pleaded to have him build it a little larger....LOL) and its so good to finally see it all come together and work as well or slightly better than anyone involved hoped. Actually at the end of the day it met the best of our expectations and that's not always easy to do or accomplish.
Kudos for the results and more kudos for sharing the real numbers off the Westech dyno. When I found out about them I really didnt just assume Dan would post and when he said he was I shared with him that I felt that was a stand up guy kind of move and good for the community to learn from and hammer home how comparing dyno results from different equipment is really just hypothetical at best.
Good stuff!.....catch you guys later
-Tony
Tony,
Thanks for the compliments, but more importantly the advice
(I followed most of it LOL) and your patience along the way
from the very beginning. The initial idea started in 2008 @ PRI,
with parts selections and purchases starting 3 + years ago.
It has taken a long time to get to this point, there is still
a lot to finish before the install hopefully in November.
Your MMS LS3 Heads & MAMOFIED FAST W/Mid Length
Runners combined with LLSR & Dustin Lee's
Engine Assembly and tricks have delivered the exact power
and curves I was hoping for as validated on the WesTech
Engine Dyno.
Thanks Again
Dan
DarthV8r helped me a lot with the tune. I had some experience but not enough to tackle this. Also used some unknown 65 lb injectors so had to fine tune the data manually
Got the new diff in with 4.56's. That woke it up a lot again! It actually feels retarded on the street.
It runs pretty good all around, but having some issues with the 02's wanting to trim too much down low because of the cam overlap.
DarthV8r helped me a lot with the tune. I had some experience but not enough to tackle this. Also used some unknown 65 lb injectors so had to fine tune the data manually
Got the new diff in with 4.56's. That woke it up a lot again! It actually feels retarded on the street.
It runs pretty good all around, but having some issues with the 02's wanting to trim too much down low because of the cam overlap.
Oh yeah, that setup and 4.56s is like peanut butter and jelly.
DarthV8r helped me a lot with the tune. I had some experience but not enough to tackle this. Also used some unknown 65 lb injectors so had to fine tune the data manually
Got the new diff in with 4.56's. That woke it up a lot again! It actually feels retarded on the street.
It runs pretty good all around, but having some issues with the 02's wanting to trim too much down low because of the cam overlap.
Wow! 4.56's do you even get traction before 4th Gr? LOL!
How much overlap do you have again?
I have Siemens/Deka 60 lb injectors and 17.5* Overlap,
hopefully won't be to bad for my Tuner.
02-25-2017, 03:54 PM
690 FWHP DLRE, MMS, Cam Motion, LLR, FAST 102 W MID LENGTH RUNNERS 
