Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Guys,

Thought I would share a combo that looks better in the real world than it might on paper.

What I mean to say is the cam is small.....the heads are small.....because both of these items were designed and spec'ed to be installed in a 6.0 liter engine and Im not exactly sure why the 6.0 was traded out for the 416 stroker (perhaps the owner can share the details), but the results would justify whatever that reason might have been....I would have been way off the mark if I was asked to guess what this combo might have made

Here is a list of some of the components copied and pasted from an email I received for Joe (the owner). Btw, its a 1st gen Camaro with a T56 conversion and a power robbing 12Bolt with big 33 spline axles. Not sure about the gear ratio but I suspect its got some gear in it as well. The static compression is also mild at 11.2 to 1. From my customer:

1 7/8 dynatec headers with 2 1/2" magnaflow exhaust
T56 magnum 6 speed

12 bolt moser rear end with 33 spline axles

102 nw tb

Your specd cam 237/244@50 624/615 114+2

Your ported 102 fast intake and 223 sportsman heads

Heads, intake, and cam were originally for ls2

This combo ended up putting down a best of 528 RWHP and 518 RWTQ with a power and torque curve that looks phenomenal and as you would expect with the small heads and cam comes on like a freight train early making over 500 RWTQ as early as 4000 RPM! Carries better than it should also IMO.....it really looks good. I bet 6-8 more degrees on the cam and it would have made 54X and 51X for torque which is awesome for my very affordable 223 heads on a CID engine that most wouldn't consider them on.

Here is a copy of the power curve and a link to a short clip on the dyno. You can actually hear how much grunt this engine is making down low....even at the hit this engine is making steam and it pulls right up to big RPM effortlessly....no coming up on the cam type of dyno....its already 450 RWTQ in the low 3K range. This engine is going to be alot of fun on the street!



And here is a link to the engine dyno video

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qthdfdutl5...0Dyno.MOV?dl=0


Really good stuff going on here guys....Joe I know it has been awhile since you and I started working together but it was more than worth the wait. Congrats on the results and I hope you have some stock in sticky rubber because this kind of low end grunt is going to be wanting to spin the tires at will.....car is gong to be alot of fun....Congrats man!!


Cheers,
Tony

Tuskyz28

What rocker arms you use on that build ?
I certainly agree with you on the fun factor... almost the same exact number on horsepower and torque. It's basically what i call "Milk and Cookies" combination.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

My rocker arm of choice (typical Mamo spec'ed deal with short travel Johnson's and Yella Terra Ultralite rockers)

So the torque is a little stronger than it ought to be due to all the "small and efficient" going on (cam and heads) and the HP a little less than it could have been for all the same reasons and that's kind of what I was touching on in my first post.

Picture no other changes but adding say 6-7 degrees to the cam (which I would have knowing I was designing a cam for a 416 in the first place).

That would have likely reduced peak TQ just a little (say 5-10 ft/lbs) but it would have moved the peak higher to closer to 5K instead of 4500.....and naturally it would have carried the torque better pushing peak power to 6500 or so vs the 6K it is now. That should have easily been worth another 15-20 RWHP putting the total in the 540+ range and perhaps tickling 550. Even 540 at the wheels is an exceptionally stout number for a cylinder head that starts for a selling price in the low 2K range, not to mention a bit small and not really in its sweet spot on this size engine. This isn't a full CNC MMS 235 head....it just worked out alot better than I would have guessed and it allows me to recommend this head to more customers I may not have considered suggesting it to prior to seeing these results which is pretty cool.

You guys will be seeing more results from my MMS 223 heads soon as I have a few other builds in the works utilizing them. I always knew they offered a tremendous bang for the buck, but these results really seal the deal for me on just how good they are. I would have been pleased if my full CNC MMS 220 pulled off these numbers with everything else the same and that head costs $500 more.

For those unfamiliar, here is an informative thread I posted when I first introduced the MMS 223's about a year ago

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...man-heads.html



Cheers,
Tony

big hammer

Still a lot better combo out there then the common 243's and an ls6 intake combo you see on a lot of strokers.

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

Agree, but 243's have made 550+ on a 416...with a Fast of course.

SoFla01SSLookinstok

Hey Tony,

Sounds good. I always enjoy seeing mild combos making good power. Most definitely will be a fun street/strip motor.

The dyno chart is not coming up. Could you post again please?

As always, great work.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Thank you

And yes....this is an awesome street combo for someone conservative that values really good street manners etc.

I'm seeing the dyno chart on my end right now....are you still having issues viewing it?

Regards,
Tony

SoFla01SSLookinstok

Yes. Still isn't coming up for me. I see where you posted it but it is just a small question mark icon for me. Hmm?

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Better now?.....LOL

Downloaded and saved it in my Photobucket account

Hopefully that works!

-Tony

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Works for me.

I wouldn't do a bigger cam. That cam is going to be super streetable in that motor. Especially if he is using a Gen III PCM.

But with bigger heads, it would have cleared 550 with that cam.

I'm to the point now, where I don't want a lot of cam. It doesn't make less power. But makes more usable power and drives better. Especially with old shitty IAC-valved PCMs.

The 2-1/2" exhaust isn't helping either. Even if it is a true dual setup.

SoFla01SSLookinstok

Nice!

Power carries great. Impressive.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

I have to disagree about a bigger cam not making more power....it certainly would have as this cam is light if you were looking for a 6500 power peak and a 7000 shift point which I feel is perfect for 90% of street driven vehicles in general. Peak torque occurs early as does peak power because the intake closing point is too early....increasing the valve dwell time and closing that valve later would have carried the torque further and made a good bit more power with the usual trade-off in low speed operation but not much if you didnt over do it. I have swapped MANY cams on the dyno with no other changes and I could probably draw the curve pretty well of what a larger cam would do here.

Regarding smaller cams being more user friendly I wont argue that (naturally you can't). But I do cater all my builds to the goals and personality of the owner of the vehicle I'm dealing with. I can usually get a good feel of how aggressive or conservative I need to be after spending 15 - 20 minutes on the phone with them going over the combo etc. (especially after sharing a few PM's or emails ahead of time). I sweat these small details more than I ought to at times taking a cam I know works well and making slight tweaks to better suit the application or the personality of the customer Im dealing with. If he is looking to smash it out of the park and understands the downsides of owning/driving a big cammed car Im all about it but I always mention or ask them to consider backing it off a touch and sacrificing 10-15 HP for a much better overall driving experience....some listen....some don't but its their build and I'm just there to help guide them.

Anyway Jake...I think its a challenge (and a rewarding one) to make big power with conservative cam timing....the motor is just explosive everywhere and easy to live with so in that respect we are certainly on the same page and I know that's what you were probably driving at (pun intended)...and I get it....LOL



Later,
Tony

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Tony I had to lol at a "mild" build 5xx hp motor. Your über head / mild cam builds continue to impress.

G Atsma

All about doing more with less.... love it!

Joeking1025

iTrader: (1)

I originally had an ls2 with an automatic and 3500 convertor that tony specd the heads, cam, and intake combo for. I later decided to build the 416 ls3 and I already had the top end Components from Tony. He said the combo should still work out well but would have went with a little bigger cam if he knew it would been for a 416. Everything turned out great! With a 3.42 gear it still have tons of power in any gear from the flat torque curve. The heads show how a well designed cathedral port head like the sportsman 223 can do even with a bigger cubic inch motor and a smaller cc head and keep great drivability!

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

very nice combination you have, unless you are at the track more than just cruising then you Will really like this set up for a long time

codyvette

iTrader: (24)

Was this car ever ran at the dragstrip?