MSGHUFF

iTrader: (7)

Finally after waiting a month I got all my parts in for my project and installed it 10 days ago it took a weekend in my garage at home by myself.

Soundclip of the idle at cold startup after the install(old setup tune):
http://media.putfile.com/MSGHUFF-402-startup

Soo I put ~350 miles on it with two oil changes and put it on the DYNO today. I was able to get it to idle good and my AFR at WOT is ok... But everything else needs a lot of work.....I set the timing at WOT from 3k-7k at 26 degrees, I had planned to work with it but didn’t have the time with my other issues. It was the first time this motor has been WOT (didn’t have the 42's until today) and it pushed the dipstick out and blew oil everywhere.......Scared the **** out of me! I installed a crankcase breather temp on the dyno but still need to figure out what to do with my PVC setup...

**Edit**: Fixed the dipstick issue with a new o-ring and I was using an elbow with a one way check valve on the fresh air side of the PVC...Turns out at WOT the fresh air line is also a vent and it wouldnt let crankcase pressure release through it.....

Here is the graph it made 450 rwtq @ 3750!!!: 490/474


My setup:

SDPC built forged LS2 402ci stroker (shortblock)
- Eagle crank
- Scat rods
- Manley -14cc Dished pistons
- Total seal rings
- Clevite bearings
- ARP Bolts
- New stock LS2 lifters
- New stock LS2 chain and dampener


Fast 90mm Intake Ported by Tony Mamo @ AFR -Awsome job!!
LS2 90mm Throttle Body Ported by Tony Mamo
Cometic .045 head gaskets
Comp cams 232/236 .598/.605 -112LSA 0 advance
MSD Wires
AFR 8019 upgraded springs set up to 1.795 installed height with 155 seat pressure

42lb delphi injectors

I re-used my AFR 205 heads but milled them down another .006 for 60cc chambers

SCR 11.10
DCR 8.33

re-used my TR7.4 pushrods got 7.280 on the checker and had 1.75 turns on the bolts so I have ~.120 lifter preload

I know the heads and cam are a little on the small side but I couldn’t afford new heads.... So I matched a cam that Tony thought will work well with these heads for what I wanted.

Driving this thing is a blast!! I have a 3:90 rear end and it’s a beast!!! The low end grunt is just unreal. I have a lot of tuning that needs to be done but I'm positive I will be over 500/490 after I get some more mileage and a perfect tune!

Thanks to Tony for the advice and an awesome job on the porting! And Brian at SDPC for hooking me up with a great deal!

**UPDATE***
ran a 10.90@128.5
http://video.ls1tech.com/video/ff414...53010290bd.htm

TXCAMSS

iTrader: (60)

You should not have that much crankcase pressure. Make sure your TB vent port is no capped off and make sure it goes to the valve cover nipple to balance the fresh available air. It may be as simple as that if you have it plugged off right now. That's a no-no

I don't run my TB suction to a PCV at all. I don't want a drop of oil in my TB/intake. I have 3/8" 90" fittings coming off the valve cover and a LS6 valley pan that tie together and vent through an AMW catch can and then vents to atmosphere. It has been working great. I get a mild amount of vapor from the open end which actually has a small breather on it as well. The catch can accumulates a good bit of white sludge condensate as it is designed to do. I still change my oil way more than I need to (every 500-800 miles) because we run it quite a bit at the track and it's just cheap insurance IMO.

I hope this helps.

Nice numbers BTW.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Wayne...

Good preliminary results....what people cant see on the dyno is the brutal throttle response at part throttle this kind of combination offers with the small runner high velocity 205's. It must be a blast to squirt around town with.

I can give you some pointers on the WOT tune when your ready....hard to see the A/F ratio on your gragh....maybe you could email me the file. It will probably like closer to 28' of timing and potentially a little more past 6K.

The dipstick shouldn't be blowing out....check the routing of everything. A leakdown test couldn't hurt either....you might be getting compression past the rings pressurizing the crankcase and blowing the dipstick, but it could be something silly or simple. Perhaps run a catchcan with a breather to allow the crankcase to vent etc.

Enjoy the new ride and keep me posted....you know where to find me!

CHRISPY

congrats on the numbers!

Question though, did you do porting on the heads to open up the chamber? What headgasket are you running?

MSGHUFF

iTrader: (7)

No on the head porting They are box stock 205's milled .030 with the upgraded 8019 springs. Cometic .045 gasket

CHRISPY

So you are running a 4 inch bore gasket with 3.905 inch bore heads?

Just curious about the setup

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

Looks good to me.

MSGHUFF

iTrader: (7)

I wasnt aware heads had a bore size?

MSGHUFF

iTrader: (7)

I relooked on how I had my PVC set-up and I think I found my problem. The LS2 Thottle body doesnt have a line for fresh air so I tapped into the airbridge but used a one way check valve/elbow like the ones on the brake booster. It was the right size, looked good and fit perfectly. But something I didnt think about is that under high RPM/WOT this line also acts as a vent... So with the check valve in place it wasnt able to release the pressure through the fresh air vent. This along with replacing the worn out O-ring on my dipstick should fix my problem. I will make some 6700 rpm blasts tonight and check it out.

CHRISPY

Yup

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Very sweet #'s! Congrats!!

MSGHUFF

iTrader: (7)

removing the check valve completely fixed it.....

SideStep

That is good news....

So what are your impressions so far??? Could you drive it daily???

LeMansBlue04

I sure would like to see some numbers posted on some other A4 cars. I also have the AFR 205 heads. I originally had them on my stock shortblock which of course was a 346 CI motor. I was running 342 RWHO and 401 RWTQ with the 346. I had done allot of consulting with Tony Mamo to get there.

(This is more info on my car than I have given anyone but the discussion about using the 205 heads on a 402 makes it worth it to me).


When I burned #7 about a year later I put in a 402 shortblock from SDPC. Since I already had the AFR 205 heads it didn't make economic sense to buy the 225's. Beside's the only gain Tony thinks they would bring is in peak HP. Here is the setup.

- LS2 Block with the stock bore
- Eagle Crank 4" stroke
- SCAT H-Beam Rods
- Diamond Dished Pistons -14cc Decked at +.010
- AFR 205 Heads Milled for 62cc Chambers
- Cometic Head Gaskets .040 Thick
- Springs are as supplied by AFR (Same as Patriot Gold) but shimmed to 1.750
- Cam 234/238 & .598/.605 lift @ 114 LSA. Cam Tony Mamo used in test 2&3 on the 383 project.
- Stock Rocker arms with 7.350 pushrods
- FAST 90mm Intake Ported by Tony, the first one he did by the way. (Other than his)
- 90mm GM LS2 Drive By Wire Throttle Body
- SVO 30# Injectors With The Fat One Over #7
- LG Long Tube Headers & Crossover with Random Cats & ZO6 Ti Cat Back
- UD Pulley
- Meziere Elect. Water Pump
- Stock Oil Pump With Shims On The Relief Spring (Redline 20w50)
- Doug DeWitts Direct Replacement Dual Core Radiator
- 4L65-E Level 3 Transmission Built By Gear Star (Thank you Dave Myers!)
- Yank SS3600 Converter
- DTE 3.73 Differential and Gears
- Dyno Runs made on Run Flats (Could have slipped a bit)
- 470 RWTQ and 461 RWHP
Assembled and Tuned by 21st Century Muscle Cars
(Sorry about not posting the Dyno sheet but I only have it on paper.)

When the car was put together they tuned it a little rich and then waited for me to put a few hundred miles on it. After that we tuned it with a final A/F ratio of between 12.9 and 13.0 depending on RPM. The SOP feel over the old 346 was much unexpected and the Dyno runs told me why.

Some guys think this is a killer setup with some great numbers for an A4. But I can’t help but look at the numbers Tony got out of his 383 project and wonder where I left some power on the table. No matter what ya got ya always want more.

As for driveability; In the summer heat at the initial startup the idle can be a bit temperamental for about a minute or two, then it’s fine. I also need to leave the AC off until the engine warms up but that takes just a couple of minutes. In the winter the warm up obviously takes a little longer

The car does run extremely well when warm. I had one opportunity to get out to the track but it was 1/8th. I run a CCW drag pack with the 26x11.5x16 ET Streets. My 60 was 1.54 and I ran a consistent 7.14 with a 2800 DA. However I was tagging the limiter on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Later I discovered my shift points were set at 6800, where they should be, but the rev limiter was also set at 6800. The limiter has since been changed to 7K but it's too hot for accurate track testing now.

The car pulls really hard and perhaps the torque is just what I need to get off the line at the track. Yet, I see Tony getting around 550 at the wheels with a 383 no less! Yea, he’s an M6 and I’m an A4, but that’s still a pretty big delta considering the difference in cubes. I am wondering what would happen if I put a set of 225’s on the car along with that solid roller he is running?

MSGHUFF

iTrader: (7)

This thing is a beast and drives awsome I got the idle down but everything else still needs attention. I drove it 250 miles round trip to drop my step son off and had no issues at all.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

Lemansblue04 - Those are real good numbers for an LS2 402 car with an A4 and 3600 stall converter. I have a LS2 402 A4 car with a 4000 stall and would be happy if mine dyno'd like that. Your 1/8 ET calculates to a nearly 11 sec flat ET which taken in consideration the DA, you will probably hit 10's in good weather.

LeMansBlue04

Thanks, I think you may be right especially when you consider that my 1/8th run was tagging the rev limiter just before my shifts. I am really looking forward to some good weather this fall. One of the issues with an A4 of course is the added HP loss. Lots of people think it's around 18%. I don't. With the 3.73 gears and the A4 I think the loss is about 20%.

MSGHUFF

iTrader: (7)

I agree! I bet that thing is an animal when it downshifts!!

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Never satisfied huh Andy??....LOL (welcome to the club)

Call me at AFR this week and we can look into finding you a few more ponies to add to your stable. The first and most cost effective is to have me port your LS2 TB....I dont think I did that way back when at the time you coerced me into doing your intake....LOL Assuming that TB is stock thats a quick and easy 5 RWHP and a bunch more SOTP and throttle response to boot. We can talk about a little larger cam (still streetable), a tad more CR, and maybe reworking your 205 chambers and a few other tricks to better compliment the larger bore (and displacement). Im confident we can put you up over 500 RWHP without adversely effecting drivability too much.
(Note thats a seriously stout number for an A4 car)

You know where to find me....

Tony

MSGHUFF

iTrader: (7)

Run flats and cats are sucking up at least 15 hp.