Why NOT to do mail order tunes - 66 rwhp gain inside!
06-03-2010, 09:03 AM
#1
FormerVendor
Thread Starter
Why NOT to do mail order tunes - 66 rwhp gain inside! Here is a very good example of why you should not do mail order tunes when it comes to these cars, and especially the ones with serious modding like cam shafts.
This is a 2000 Trans Am that had a decently large camshaft put in it. The owner of the car sent out his PCM to get tuned for his modifications. He's been driving around, racing around, etc for quite some time. The customer's complaint was that the car ran better on the stock tune, than it did on the mail order tune so he wanted me to take a look at it. It had a distinct loss of power at 2500 rpms.
Now I really enjoy helping people out, making sure their cars are running right and pointing them in the right direction if they aren't. So instead of telling him to wait for the $250 Grand Opening Special, I wanted him to come in early.
The first run glitched slightly so I'm not exactly sure that the torque is right after the advanced filter. I thought it was more like 308 but 312 isn't too far off either lol.
YIKES! Very low power for a cammed LS1. But this isn't the scary part.
Now the reason why it was running this poorly was from too much timing and too little fuel. It literally maxed out my wideband setting interfacing with HPT which reads up to a 17.8 AFR. It started lean and went even worse.
Now think about this: The customer has been driving around with this horrible AFR for quite some time. He didn't know just how bad and unsafe this was. (For some reason it didn't pull any timing either - which surprised the hell out of me). It is also a pretty good testimonial that these engines can be beat to death and still keep on rocking.
So richening it up, lowering the timing yielded a gain of 66 rwhp. Better drivability. Actually starts and stays started. And most importantly is running SAFE!
To date this is the largest gain I've made out of a car from a single tune. Previous gain was 50 rwhp from another blind tune.
And just a reminder, sign ups start tonight for our grand opening dyno tune special!
$200 dyno tuned GTOs only
(my special for the foundation of my business)
for the whole week, June 7th - 13th!
$250 dyno tunes the second week for all 2WD LS engine vehicles.
Again, the whole week, June 14th - June 20th!
And still a great $300 price for a dyno tune on a regular basis.
Best hours of availability for you working folk.
M-F - 6 PM - 11 PM
S-S - 10 AM - 11 PM!
I'll be posting a new thread for the sign ups tonight.
We are located in West Chester, PA!
info@completestreetperformance.com
This is a 2000 Trans Am that had a decently large camshaft put in it. The owner of the car sent out his PCM to get tuned for his modifications. He's been driving around, racing around, etc for quite some time. The customer's complaint was that the car ran better on the stock tune, than it did on the mail order tune so he wanted me to take a look at it. It had a distinct loss of power at 2500 rpms.
Now I really enjoy helping people out, making sure their cars are running right and pointing them in the right direction if they aren't. So instead of telling him to wait for the $250 Grand Opening Special, I wanted him to come in early.
The first run glitched slightly so I'm not exactly sure that the torque is right after the advanced filter. I thought it was more like 308 but 312 isn't too far off either lol.
YIKES! Very low power for a cammed LS1. But this isn't the scary part.
Now the reason why it was running this poorly was from too much timing and too little fuel. It literally maxed out my wideband setting interfacing with HPT which reads up to a 17.8 AFR. It started lean and went even worse.
Now think about this: The customer has been driving around with this horrible AFR for quite some time. He didn't know just how bad and unsafe this was. (For some reason it didn't pull any timing either - which surprised the hell out of me). It is also a pretty good testimonial that these engines can be beat to death and still keep on rocking.
So richening it up, lowering the timing yielded a gain of 66 rwhp. Better drivability. Actually starts and stays started. And most importantly is running SAFE!
To date this is the largest gain I've made out of a car from a single tune. Previous gain was 50 rwhp from another blind tune.
And just a reminder, sign ups start tonight for our grand opening dyno tune special!
$200 dyno tuned GTOs only
(my special for the foundation of my business)
for the whole week, June 7th - 13th!
$250 dyno tunes the second week for all 2WD LS engine vehicles.
Again, the whole week, June 14th - June 20th!
And still a great $300 price for a dyno tune on a regular basis.
Best hours of availability for you working folk.
M-F - 6 PM - 11 PM
S-S - 10 AM - 11 PM!
I'll be posting a new thread for the sign ups tonight.
We are located in West Chester, PA!
info@completestreetperformance.com
Last edited by andrewzpsu; 06-07-2010 at 02:42 PM.
06-03-2010, 12:50 PM
#6
Nice gains Andrew, I bet that guy is real happy right now. 
Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that part, there is a very strong likelihood that if he was driving/racing the car pretty hard that he did at least some ring/piston damage that might not become apparent immediately...but at least now the car is running well and won't be experiencing any further damage. 
Now think about this: The customer has been driving around with this horrible AFR for quite some time. He didn't know just how bad and unsafe this was. (For some reason it didn't pull any timing either - which surprised the hell out of me). It is also a pretty good testimonial that these engines can be beat to death and still keep on rocking.
06-03-2010, 01:19 PM
#7
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hopefully he didnt beat it too hard and it holds together. I had a similar situation but my can was supose to be dyno tuned yet was sent on its way barely running ,ripping through a tank of gas in under 90 miles and made 360rwhp. With a proper tune the car picked up 50hp, 10mpg and actually idles
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06-03-2010, 02:58 PM
#11
FormerVendor
Thread Starter
Same price, unless it is an SD tune.
Actually he did buy me dinner. We went to Wendy's after =P
I do not tune mustangs. I am not sure if I will break into that market or not, I need to play with a couple of them and the software. Tomorrow one of the best mustang tuners will be at the shop tuning my buddy's car... so I'm probably going to be watching what he does like a hawk HAHA.
I do not tune mustangs. I am not sure if I will break into that market or not, I need to play with a couple of them and the software. Tomorrow one of the best mustang tuners will be at the shop tuning my buddy's car... so I'm probably going to be watching what he does like a hawk HAHA.
06-03-2010, 03:25 PM
#12
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^ yes indeed! I can't wait. Hopefully Jon Lund can put me over the 800rwhp mark and set the bar on the shop dyno pulls!
06-03-2010, 04:28 PM
#13
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Same price, unless it is an SD tune.
Actually he did buy me dinner. We went to Wendy's after =P
I do not tune mustangs. I am not sure if I will break into that market or not, I need to play with a couple of them and the software. Tomorrow one of the best mustang tuners will be at the shop tuning my buddy's car... so I'm probably going to be watching what he does like a hawk HAHA.
Actually he did buy me dinner. We went to Wendy's after =P
I do not tune mustangs. I am not sure if I will break into that market or not, I need to play with a couple of them and the software. Tomorrow one of the best mustang tuners will be at the shop tuning my buddy's car... so I'm probably going to be watching what he does like a hawk HAHA.
06-03-2010, 04:32 PM
#14
FormerVendor
Thread Starter
I'm honestly not sure. I haven't taken a look at the mustang stuff yet other than sniper tuning software (which I wasn't really fond of). I'll know more tomorrow for sure when I see someone else tuning it, maybe he'll show me a few things.
06-03-2010, 05:01 PM
#15
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same story here. engine built. mild cam, mail order tune. the car was that lean i only made 317 hp and 322 torque 1st run on the dyno. after the tuning was done i had 380 hp and 366 torque with a maxed out fuel pump
06-03-2010, 10:54 PM
#18
I just dont understand why people skimp on things like a tune for cars that are modded decently. Let me spend 3k on a cam and supporting mods and get a 150 dollar mail order tune. Sure it may work but we all know dyno tuning is where its at and camemd cars depend soooo much on the tune to be DRIVEABLE and make good power. glad you got the guy hooked up.
Its like reading the threads.......can i get away without a tune for 150 shot since its a wet kit.
Its like reading the threads.......can i get away without a tune for 150 shot since its a wet kit.
06-04-2010, 06:27 AM
#19
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actually itsslow98 that was not the reason at all for getting a mail order tune....this was my first time doing anything like this, there isnt a dyno shop in the area, I drove 3 hours to see andrew..not sure about you but I work and didnt have time to waste a day.... and 3k on a camshaft? naw I do my work myself. My mail order tune was more like 250 and from sending it back and have them "fix" it, I have over 300 in it. When I started looking into the tuning end the cheapest I saw would be 5-600 for a dyno tune..I dont have that so 250 looked real good, along with the reputation they are supposed to have. Now from learning the hard way I find that a mail order tune should be like you said 150 or cheaper and that yes it is only good for gears and deleting codes etc. Now I have the 600 in it anyway. I am going to call the company and tell them exactly how i feel and the results of their tune. I am going to request a refund, if they are professional about it then this gets swept under the table, maybe they will turn people down with modifications. If they are not professional then yes their name does get posted and if 2 people out of this chooses not to use them them then they lost 500 rather then giving me back my 250. I will post what happens.
