If 600rwhp was your end goal, would there be a downside to a rear mount.
11-03-2008, 10:22 AM
#1
If 600rwhp was your end goal, would there be a downside to a rear mount. I would like to try my hand at the turbo thing.
My project car is going to be my 98 Trans Am that is bone stock. Its just my daily drive and i want to make it fun.
I was considering going H/C route, but i just dont want to do a second car the same way i did my first.
Im looking and doing a home-built rear mount. I was also considering doing a DIY front mount, but if 600rwhp is my final goal, would doing a front mount even be an advantage? I would like to make ~500rwhp now, and maybe 600 down the road once i got more familiar with tuning and started upgrading a few parts.
I would probably do it with a MP T-70, or some other turbo i could pick up for cheap.
My project car is going to be my 98 Trans Am that is bone stock. Its just my daily drive and i want to make it fun.
I was considering going H/C route, but i just dont want to do a second car the same way i did my first.
Im looking and doing a home-built rear mount. I was also considering doing a DIY front mount, but if 600rwhp is my final goal, would doing a front mount even be an advantage? I would like to make ~500rwhp now, and maybe 600 down the road once i got more familiar with tuning and started upgrading a few parts.
I would probably do it with a MP T-70, or some other turbo i could pick up for cheap.
11-03-2008, 11:54 AM
#7
On a more serious note, you will lose overall effeciency with the turbo being rear mounted. How much I can't say. I can tell you that I run a rear mount in one of the worst environments around. Our summer time DA is 7000+ and it really affects spoolup, but my car is still decent to drive. I do have an auto trans in it which works really well to mask spool issues. I have a friend with a 6spd setup here too using a 72mm and it spools very fast because it is sized correctly for his setup.
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11-03-2008, 12:14 PM
#9
The primary use for this is to just be a fun daily driver. I already have a 418 nitrous car that is my drag car. I guess im just using this as an avenue to get my feet wet in the turbo world, since thats is ultimately what i would like to do with my other car.
How does a 500rwhp rear mount vs 500rwhp front mount compare? Can you experience very similar results if sizing is correct, etc?
How do you feel the MP T-70 would work as a rear mount, and what would it max at?
I dont ever see me putting big money into this car, because i already have another car that i have turned into my "race car". This car is just going to be for fun.
How does a 500rwhp rear mount vs 500rwhp front mount compare? Can you experience very similar results if sizing is correct, etc?
How do you feel the MP T-70 would work as a rear mount, and what would it max at?
I dont ever see me putting big money into this car, because i already have another car that i have turned into my "race car". This car is just going to be for fun.
11-03-2008, 12:15 PM
#10
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Ha... ha... ha...
A lot...
To the OP: Do a front mount. You'll make the same amount of power, running less boost. Rear mounts only work the best when they're heated up. I've seen numbers differ by the hundreds on the dyno after a few passes and once the exhaust started to heat up. 'Course, these were on purpose built all-out race cars, but still...
On a more serious note, you will lose overall effeciency with the turbo being rear mounted. How much I can't say. I can tell you that I run a rear mount in one of the worst environments around. Our summer time DA is 7000+ and it really affects spoolup, but my car is still decent to drive. I do have an auto trans in it which works really well to mask spool issues. I have a friend with a 6spd setup here too using a 72mm and it spools very fast because it is sized correctly for his setup.
To the OP: Do a front mount. You'll make the same amount of power, running less boost. Rear mounts only work the best when they're heated up. I've seen numbers differ by the hundreds on the dyno after a few passes and once the exhaust started to heat up. 'Course, these were on purpose built all-out race cars, but still...
11-03-2008, 12:27 PM
#14
My basic plans are as follows:
MP T-70 or similar - $500-600 im guessing
Wastegate - $250-300
BOV - $250 - 300
Oil Pump - $110 (thanks for the info Zombie)
Misc Tubing - Few hundred dollars
I was going to plumb it all up myself
I see that most have decent luck with no intercooler at my power goals (500rwhp). Not sure what i would gain hp wise out of it, im assuming just more efficient per lb of boost, and perhaps more hp on pump gas.
Its looking like i could realisticly do this for $2000 or less.
The car already has a 255 in tank pump, and im picking up some 42lb injectors soon.
Am i talking out of my head here or does all of this sound right?
I would love to do a front mount, but even if i do all the things that i can to cut corners, 3500-4000 is more around what it would cost. I dont like the idea of the truck manifold kits because they elimiate the AC. I was also looking at the "ebay" kits that some have had luck with, but it just seems like a lot of work for no more power than im shooting for.
MP T-70 or similar - $500-600 im guessing
Wastegate - $250-300
BOV - $250 - 300
Oil Pump - $110 (thanks for the info Zombie)
Misc Tubing - Few hundred dollars
I was going to plumb it all up myself
I see that most have decent luck with no intercooler at my power goals (500rwhp). Not sure what i would gain hp wise out of it, im assuming just more efficient per lb of boost, and perhaps more hp on pump gas.
Its looking like i could realisticly do this for $2000 or less.
The car already has a 255 in tank pump, and im picking up some 42lb injectors soon.
Am i talking out of my head here or does all of this sound right?
I would love to do a front mount, but even if i do all the things that i can to cut corners, 3500-4000 is more around what it would cost. I dont like the idea of the truck manifold kits because they elimiate the AC. I was also looking at the "ebay" kits that some have had luck with, but it just seems like a lot of work for no more power than im shooting for.
11-03-2008, 12:30 PM
#15
I have a nice Mig and Tig welder, so fabing things up really wont be an issue. I would consider doing a front mount and making my own hot parts (i have build headers on race cars before, but not in the tight confines of the fbody engine bay) but thats a lot to bite off for my first turbo project... plus a lot more money and complexity that i dont think i need to mess with for my power goals.
11-03-2008, 01:07 PM
#16
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If you can fabricate everything yourself, then go for it! It will be cheaper.
I was simply stating that it will make more power once it starts to heat up, which takes longer than a front mount.
Efficiency will still be a little worse than a front mount, but if you're only aiming for 600 at the tires, it shouldn't matter. All you'll need to do is turn up the little black ****.
I like to overbuild things, so that way when and if I turn up the boost, I don't have to rebuild everything. Keep in mind that if you're running a lower amount of boost, everything will last longer than if you're running a higher number.
Good luck.
I was simply stating that it will make more power once it starts to heat up, which takes longer than a front mount.
Efficiency will still be a little worse than a front mount, but if you're only aiming for 600 at the tires, it shouldn't matter. All you'll need to do is turn up the little black ****.
I like to overbuild things, so that way when and if I turn up the boost, I don't have to rebuild everything. Keep in mind that if you're running a lower amount of boost, everything will last longer than if you're running a higher number.
Good luck.
11-03-2008, 01:15 PM
#17
If you can fabricate everything yourself, then go for it! It will be cheaper.
I was simply stating that it will make more power once it starts to heat up, which takes longer than a front mount.
Efficiency will still be a little worse than a front mount, but if you're only aiming for 600 at the tires, it shouldn't matter. All you'll need to do is turn up the little black ****.
I like to overbuild things, so that way when and if I turn up the boost, I don't have to rebuild everything. Keep in mind that if you're running a lower amount of boost, everything will last longer than if you're running a higher number.
Good luck.
I was simply stating that it will make more power once it starts to heat up, which takes longer than a front mount.
Efficiency will still be a little worse than a front mount, but if you're only aiming for 600 at the tires, it shouldn't matter. All you'll need to do is turn up the little black ****.
I like to overbuild things, so that way when and if I turn up the boost, I don't have to rebuild everything. Keep in mind that if you're running a lower amount of boost, everything will last longer than if you're running a higher number.
Good luck.
This is going to be a do it once, have one goal in mind, and then it will be done.
If i **** the stock bottom end out at ~500rwhp (its a high mileage motor), then i will just do a mild rebuild with cheap but good aftermarket rods and pistons and then be done. At that point if the turbo has a bit more in it and i can up the power a little, then i will. At no point in the cars life will i ever decide to take it over 600rwhp, too much starts breaking or needed upgraded at that point.
Main point of this project is to get me familiar with the little quirks and tricks of turbos. I would like to do an 88+ on my 418 car down the road, and dont want to mess something up by jumping into all that at once.
I dont want to loose any creature comforts or reliability, just want to make the car more fun.
11-03-2008, 02:11 PM
#20
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I run a rearmount on my car.My first setup was stock motor,with a cam,meth injection,intercooler and a mpt-70.I put down 560 rwhp through a m6 with 8 psi,so your goals are easily reachable.