lunitic5454

iTrader: (1)

I posted this thread in FI because I'd like to get input from people with boosted engines, so I hope this doesn't get moved.

First, let me tell you about my build. I've got a 408 with a GT-88 turbo and a 4L80e that is in a '67 camaro. My goal is 800rwhp on E85. It will be primarily a street car that sees occasional track time.

I have talk to several area dynos throughout this build and now I'm to the point of getting a PCM. I planned on using HP Tuners, but a couple guys said I wouldn't like it cuz the software is a pain in the butt to learn for first time users.

Each dyno operator suggests something different, HPT, AEM, BS3, and FAST. I'm also willing to use Megasquirt. I just want the software to be user friendly. I will eventually take it to a dyno to have it fine tuned, but I'd like to do a majority of it myself. I am aware of the price differences, but if getting a $3000 BS3 vs. $800 HPT saves me 100 hours in learning curve, then to me its worth it.

I would like to hear people's opinions how user friendly each system is to use, especially people that have used multiple systems.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

well, what have you already tuned (as in what platform)?

lunitic5454

iTrader: (1)

This will be my first time tuning.

This is not my first FI build though. I already have a shelby cobra kit car with a supercharged 302, but I didnt do the tuning. I have read several books and countless hours on the computer about tuning, I know that isnt the same as firsthand experience, but I feel I have a good grasp of it.

The WOT tuning I'm not so much worried about, that will be done at the dyno. What concerns me is the initial start-up and more importantly, the tuning at idle and cruising speeds. If I can have that fairly close, then it will save me $$ on the dyno.

I have read about the UEGO being used as an auto-tuning device on the stand-alones, but I'm skeptical about how well it works.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

It's hard to answer... driveability can be made better with OEM PCMs than with stand alones, but if you buy a standalone, you can often have a base map to get you in the ballpark thrown in. Most of the stand alone systems are pretty archaic when it comes to interface or logging. Many haven't had significant software updates in approaching a decade. They integrate the wideband for you though; so that's pretty nice.

Of course if you go the HPTuner's/EFI Live route, you can always buy a base tune through email (or one pre-loaded on a PCM if you buy the PCM from a tuner) which could be loaded up. I use both HPTuner's and EFI Live but I started with HPT. To ME, HPTuner's is easier to navigate because functions are grouped together whereas EFI Live has everything on a tree on the left. It's like going through folders and sub folders in windows explorer. It gets the job done, it just takes me longer. The forum over at HPTuner's for support seems to have a good bit more activity as well. I think I had a little over 100 hours of reading in before I tuned on my first bolt ons car, so I don't think that you will be grabbing ANY package and just hit the ground running. You can't shortcut the learning process unfortunately.

lunitic5454

iTrader: (1)

Thank you Frost, thats some good info.

How well integrated is the wideband into the stand alone PCM's? AEM offers a PCM that can use a wideband with a "auto-tuning" feature. I could see this being very useful, just set the desired AFR and it will teach itself.... but if it were that easy for a $1000, then I'm sure people would be spending $800 on HPT.

I already have a LC-1 AFR meter, so using that with HPT would work well.... but an "auto-tuning" feature sure would be nice (if it worked as easy as it sounds)

Also any tuning literature that you guys use that helped you out would be beneficial.

Thank you in advance!

BlackWS666

iTrader: (31)

subscribing.....I am also getting into tuning and this is a good topic.

dkrowner

iTrader: (6)

i read the two books by greg banish,and also a book by ben strader.i use EFILIVE V2 which i think is better then HPT but thats just me

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

HPTuners and EFILive are both easy to use. Knowing what you are doing is a completely different story. One needs to know a fair amount of tuning basics before a lot of the software will make sense.

Dragframe

iTrader: (14)

Honestly man... EFI Live. Hp tuners and EFI are very similar but EFI's customers service is second to NONE. They are by far the best company I have EVER dealt with.

I will forever be a EFI Live customer. You have any questions or what to know why I say what I do just PM me. You will see the light.


Beyond my nut swinging. Hp Tuners and EFI Live are the only ways to go. I personally choose Live for thier customer service... not having to pay extra credits for custom OS's... the customer service... all kinds of LITTLE things that really make the difference to me

FreddyG

I agree!

I went with EfiLive because I could download and go through the program before dropping what I considered a good amount of money on tuning software (and also the free upgrade to the Custom Operating Systems). I bought HP Tuners just to see if I liked it or not, but went with EfiLive because I was more comfortable with the layout (and also the support that I got from their forum members while learning the software).

Another plus to EfiLive is that you can use a setup called the RoadRunner.
This allows you to tune in Real Time and you can see the changes as you log/tune.

RoadRunner..................

Frost has Great advice in that you should read up and sponge as much info that you can before deciding. Both will work, but you just have to figure which one that you're the most comfortable with.

You picked a heck of a project to get your feet wet with though! Good Luck!


By the way, if you're ending up going to a COS (Custom Operating System), then you should get the software that your tuner is going to use because they won't work with each other if that's the case.

foff667

iTrader: (2)

We are a sponsor here on the forum so every purchase indirectly supports this site and we have a presence here & on our forum so you'll always be able to find help

XtremeDime

iTrader: (16)

Ive only used HPT but Im not very good at tuning, Im just starting out. My friend was using FAST to tune his Grand National and I was pretty impressed with how easy it is but it does seem to lack alot of features that HPT has.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

I have been tuning FI cars for years but mostly talons and more recently my 99TT.
I use Hptuners. Its decent program .The board does get quite a bit of activity. Sometimes it can be hard to get a direct answer on the hptuners board as pro tuners generally guard their secrets. Still if you search and ask enough you generally get the help you need. There are lots of nice smart guys on the Hptuners board like Frost and hptuners is pretty common. It does have some big weaknesses over things like BS3. You have to buy two step separately for your auto its not built in. You don't get traction control options like some stand alones. Its not as easy to get bigger injectors like the 80s to run on it as maybe some standalones. Few other things too but generally you can easily get your car to start up and idle not bad and to run at least long enough to get it to pro tuner and dyno.
I wanted my factory gauges to work and to be able to use my normal diagnostic port so those are couple reasons stayed with hptuners and stock ecu.I see zero reason guy can't make 800 or 1000rwhp on stock ecu.

In contrast though to hptuners on my 99 , I tune my talons for big injectors in seconds with help on the talon boards, everyone there freely shares all the info. There are really no pro tuners on the boards just users and the programs are very user friendly ,at least the ones I use. Most things like two step ,antilag are in software which is nice.
I dialed in 115 pound injectors in seconds on the talon but to be fair the talons do run low impedence factory.
Low impedence work pretty nice on our v8s too but just not a big fan of the extra clutter from harnesses and converter boxes that need to use on stock ecu. Thats another nice feature of the standalones they have support built in for low impedence.
But for now think sticking with hptuners. My car is a street car not a race car and unless find some huge reason to switch not going to bother.