jarheadl34

iTrader: (2)

Also used in aircraft engines since at least the 1950s on NA and supercharged Lycoming and Continental engines.
Really improved the service life of GO480s that I used to work on.
Jarhead

camaro383

iTrader: (13)

If you have an accusump then you wouldnt have to worry about the galleys drainning, u can prime the system before every startup

stevieturbo

I wouldnt worry about them draining. The pump shifts so much oil, it would be replenished in an instant

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

^ Agreed. I don't think they're really moving that much oil, but I have no experience with them.

Judging from the pics on the Katech site could the end of the nozzle be adjusted for spray pattern?

stevieturbo

I know a lot of other OEM jets would have an internal spring so they only open above a certain pressure.

But I think other ones fitted are only around 1mm diameter, so not huge by any means. I might have a go at drilling mine, could maybe use a MIG tip as a nozzle ? drill and tap it into the main journals ?

427

iTrader: (3)

I use .040 in mine. I drill them all, three center bulkheads have two each, 1 and 5 just get one nozzle.

Kurt

JRENIGAR

iTrader: (37)

The FORD GT engine uses this technology to cool the pistons and lets them add timing to a boosted engine for more hp...

killernoodle

If you were worried about it, you could always engineer a little ball check valve in there that would only open with oil pressure.

IKnowtheFuture

iTrader: (5)

I was told by a guy who does alot of high hp skyline rb25 motors that he takes them out because it lowers oil pressure.

stevieturbo

There are lots of dim people out there with very strange ideas.

Considering the oil pressure relief valve dumps most of the oil out anyway, the engine would need to be in a dire state if the squirters were causing any harm.

Removing them is a backwards step, and I can see no sensible or logical reason you would ever want to remove them

bettonracing

iTrader: (3)

A few sporadic thoughts on why some ppl remove the squirters:

Different engines run different bearing loads & oiling priorities and will therefore have different levels of dependencies on operating, and startup, oil pressures.

There are also two schools of thought when it comes to piston cooling:

1. Drag racers will tend towards coating the top of pistons to [hopefully] convert the heat (that would normally be absorbed by the piston) into work (power), at the risk of a smaller tuning safety margin. These guys would also tend to prefer to recover the marginal hp loss from windage when using piston squirters.
   
2. Circuit racers (or more specifically, ppl who stay on the gas for extended periods) will tend towards pulling heat out of the combustion chamber (piston being an easy target) to increase detonation threshhold, and can appreciate the oiling benefits moreso than the "live my life 1/4mile at a time" guys.

In addition, some of the import guys (Honda & DSM that I know of) have had problems with their squirters sticking open, causing oiling problems at low rpms & on startup. See example of analysis here: http://magnusmotorsports.com/tech-ar...ankwalk-theory

I think we can suspect that removing them is a bad decision, but I wouldn't go as far as calling them dim just yet.

==============

For my setup I will be running an "external" piston squirter system:

• Electric oil pump activated by a hobbs switch (pulls oil from the pan)
• 2x -6 rails (from RMR) drilled and tapped for the squirters
• 8x individual squirters (.031" restrictors, 25psi checkvalves) modified for extra length to get closer to the pistons
• 1x 5micron inline filter mounted externally (to be cleaned every oil change)
• Teflon crank scraper
• Custom windage tray
• Modified oil pan

It might seem complex & costly, but for me it works out to ~ the same $ as having the block machined (Katech is the lowest price I found @ $300, but the're not local to me), and I'm willing to risk the complexity because the potentially severe failure modes have been pretty much eliminated. If the system fails the engine runs like normal.

The 'isolated' system also allows me to do some bench testing to figure out things like the oil pickup for the electric pump, and make adjustments for equal flow distribution.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it was somewhat helpful.

Regards,

Kurt Betton

bettonracing

iTrader: (3)

Forgot this: http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126172.25

-Kurt

stevieturbo

Good post Kurt.

And some valid reasons there. However I do not believe there is an engine out there with such an inadequate oil pump system, that that is a valid reason for removing them. Given all systems are a total loss, and at idle they provide plenty of oil flow with the pump turning at a lowly 1000rpm or less. The volume of flow increase as revs rise would be massive. I cannot fathom how any properly functioning engine could ever not cope with a few little oil squirters, given it will be dumping the majority of its oil flow back out the relief valve anyway

bettonracing

iTrader: (3)

You're giving the OEM designers too much credit in thinking that they designed a "properly functioning engine"... Especially when they design the pump flow & pressures for OEM power (and bearing loads) then we go triple/quadruple the power and unleash the fury on the bearings with ignition advance and super-stiff pressure plates.

Different engines, different oil supply, different oiling requirements, different solutions.

All that said, it should be clear by now which side of the oil squirters fence I stand on.



Kurt

xxxcorvette

I know this is a little out of topic but toyota has been using this tech since the early 80' in the corrolla's, levin and truenos as well as the MR2's. My 90 corrola GTS had them on the 4AGE engine which redlined at 7600rmp in stock trim. They engineered them for the formula atlantic 4AGE series engine which spins around 11000rpm. Plus as previously stated good for lowering piston temps on the supercharged MR2 engine.

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

Even used on old tech non turbo ford 7.3 n/a diesel motors built by international. I tore one down for inspection at work. I was impressed to see each cylinder with a oil squirter, I kept some of the squirters. The engine had 600k+miles.
It got damaged because something punctured the oil pan from the outside. Loss of oil spun the bearings.

Dark Regent

Does anyone know why the Katech squirters don't work in the RHS block? Does the RHS block need to be machined to fit all 8 or do they simply not fit? I haven't been able to determine if the RHS block can be machined to fit 8 squirters instead of the standard four bolts feeding 8 cylinders. I wonder if it's possible to modify the LS9 squirters for the RHS block cause $800 for the RHS squirters is steep.

allout06

iTrader: (11)

we use oil squirters in our C175 Caterpillar engines are work

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

For my 421/YSi SBC project , I used the Bo Laws Performance kit to modify my block for piston oil squirters.

It comes with 2 fixtures, one for cyl. 1-7 and one for cyl. 8. Here I'm doing cylinder 3. I have already drilled the hole then stuck the bit through to show the angle:



Here's a better picture of one of the oil feed channels that will feed the jet. The jet will slightly protrude where the bit is sticking out:



This one shows cylinders 2-7 oil feed holes drilled and marked for cutting the feed channels:



The oil feed channel for cylinder one cut and ready for deburr:



Lastly, the tools for the next steps: a drill/tap, tap and 8 jets. The holes don't get completely threaded; you leave the last 1/2" or so unthreaded to prevent the jet from vibrating loose into the motor:



And the final result, all piston oil squirter jets installed after doing the final wash on the block:



I chose to attack heat in the piston crown from two directions. Ceramic coated pistons to keep heat out and piston oil squirters to continuously cool the crowns and lube the pins. This is in prep for road racing, mile action and high speeds runs. I did spec an oil pump that has 10% more volume than stock to handle the squirter volume confortably.

Jim

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

That looks like a fun project.
I bet that's gonna turn out real nice. Any close up pictures of the jets?