Go Back   LS1TECH > LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-LS7 PERFORMANCE > Forced Induction
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register iTraderTimeslips Photos Members Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Used CarsVendor Directory
Search

Forced Induction
Superchargers | Turbochargers | Intercoolers
Sponsored by
RPM Motorsports

Welcome to LS1Tech.com!
Welcome to LS1Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join LS1Tech.com today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-19-2011, 10:55 AM   #1
TECH Apprentice
Garage is empty, add now
 
1logote's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: cleveland ms
Posts: 304
Default The most efficient supercharger ever...???

Saw this in Hot Rod Mag. Ive studied jet engine design some in school and this seems like a really good idea. Not sure about cost effectiveness but really damn cool. What do y'all think?


http://www.axialflow.com/products.htm
__________________
And Then Some...
1logote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:13 PM   #2
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
slow67's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DFW
Posts: 2,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1logote View Post
Saw this in Hot Rod Mag. Ive studied jet engine design some in school and this seems like a really good idea. Not sure about cost effectiveness but really damn cool. What do y'all think?


http://www.axialflow.com/products.htm
They won't be cheap, because I'm pretty sure they are made to order, not sitting on a shelf.
slow67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 06:38 PM   #3
Launching!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 255
Default

I suck at using the interweb, the link provided didn't seem to show any compressor maps, but more than likely it was there, and I just couldn't see it.

From a pv=nrt standpoint, superchargers, turbo chargers, screw compressors all have some room for improvement, but I believe most often the gains are slight incremental improvements to existing basic designs, I also believe it is uncommon for anyone to make a significant improvement to the overall efficiency of mass produced units without huge investments in engineering and testing (read: big *** company spends a huge amount of $ for a measurable and repeatable improvement. For example: Eaton TVS rotors)

How many sets of TVS rotors does Eaton need to produce & sell to recover the cost of development? I suspect it is a huge number, perhaps 100K sets of rotors or more just to break even.

Thermal growth, rotor tip clearance, ambient air temp, coolant temp, pressure ratio, maximum input rpm, production tolerances, contamination, bearing life, service live, resonant frequency, torsional vibration, rotor flex, belt life... blah blah blah all that crap plus Price Point contribute to a mass production units overall efficiency.

Just my $.02 but one hand built unit tested one time doesn't mean that it will actually work when you bolt it on your engine. I think Dragon Superchargers are possibly a good example of the problem...
twinturbo496 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 07:46 PM   #4
TECH Resident
Garage is empty, add now
 
BadgeZ28's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 28
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 766
Default

In general terms our motors would require something able to flow 1200 cfm or more.
__________________
Black 01 Z-28 - Sold
10 C6
BadgeZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 08:15 PM   #5
TECH Apprentice
Garage is empty, add now
 
1logote's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: cleveland ms
Posts: 304
Default

Well Im sure this isnt general knowledge but in the basic design of this the engine only turns the first compressor rotor/stator set and the the next consecutive rotor/stator sets are free and only spun up to rpm by the output of the rotor/stator set in front of it. So its similar to the turbo systems where a smaller turbo is used to spin up a larger turbo down the line except its crank driven. So in this case the only drag on the engine is that of one or two compressor rotor sets. I would imagine there is very little parasitic loss. Seems very legit from what i have read. But I imagine the cost is phenomenal. One of these built to have an output of 1200-1500 cfm would be awesome if not only for the bragging rights and coffee discussions.
__________________
And Then Some...
1logote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 10:54 AM   #6
TECH Apprentice
Garage is empty, add now
 
1logote's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: cleveland ms
Posts: 304
Default

I just spoke to a local A&P (airframe and powerplant technician) and he informed me that even though the tolerances are very very tight, there is no actual metal to metal contact in axial flow compressors; even with heat expansion. Even less drag, wear, and higher efficiency.
__________________
And Then Some...
1logote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 01:36 PM   #7
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
slow67's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DFW
Posts: 2,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1logote View Post
Well Im sure this isnt general knowledge but in the basic design of this the engine only turns the first compressor rotor/stator set and the the next consecutive rotor/stator sets are free and only spun up to rpm by the output of the rotor/stator set in front of it. So its similar to the turbo systems where a smaller turbo is used to spin up a larger turbo down the line except its crank driven. So in this case the only drag on the engine is that of one or two compressor rotor sets. I would imagine there is very little parasitic loss. Seems very legit from what i have read. But I imagine the cost is phenomenal. One of these built to have an output of 1200-1500 cfm would be awesome if not only for the bragging rights and coffee discussions.
Actually the motor turns all of the rotors, but all of the stators are stationary.

I think this company has already done all the R&D (they started making the blowers about 40 years ago) but just scale it for the application.

One downfall of Axial flow compressors, is their surge line goes farther to the right much more than centrifugal (as the P/R goes up).
slow67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 04:50 PM   #8
TECH Apprentice
Garage is empty, add now
 
1logote's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: cleveland ms
Posts: 304
Default

Hmmm well if all the rotors are crank driven then it may not have as much potential as I originally thought.
__________________
And Then Some...
1logote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 07:41 PM   #9
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
slow67's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DFW
Posts: 2,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1logote View Post
Hmmm well if all the rotors are crank driven then it may not have as much potential as I originally thought.
They are still probably the most efficient supercharger, if it wasn't they wouldn't put Axial compressors on jet engines. Only downfall to Axial supercharging is it takes more stages than a centrifugal to get to the desired P/R.
slow67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 09:44 PM   #10
TECH Regular
Garage is empty, add now
 
89ROC-Z's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 11
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 437
Default

old design....CaseIH had the axial flow rotor years ago haha
__________________
'89 IROC - 370" LSX * Diamond Clutch * BUILT T-56 * Yukon/Fab9" * FULL UMI Spohn Hotpart ES Tubular Suspension * HSW N2O & MicroEDGE * NANO
'98 Trans Am - Stock LS1 * Circle-D 4C Stall * Built 4l60E * SLP Lid * ORY * WELD RACING Prostar XP's * MT ET Streets * SOLD!
89ROC-Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 10:22 PM   #11
Launching!
2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee
My Garage
 
chance575's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: spfld,il
Posts: 244
Default

very old design, from their history page

The first use of axial flow compressors for automotive supercharging was by Norman Latham Of West Palm Beach Florida in 1956. This unit was known as the Latham Supercharger and was sold until 1965. These were built with a sheet-metal blade installed into a ring and locked by another ring. Very clever way of getting a wing into a disk. Trouble was there was no aerodynamic shape and the time to build was totally unacceptable.
__________________
2006 Z06
chance575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 10:55 PM   #12
TECH Apprentice
Garage is empty, add now
 
1logote's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: cleveland ms
Posts: 304
Default

Yes I think these are just very kool. I would love to see one where most of the rotors are free spinning. I think that would be very cool.
__________________
And Then Some...
1logote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2011, 11:55 AM   #13
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
slow67's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: DFW
Posts: 2,379
Default

Well supposedly whoever owns Axialflow.com bought everything from Latham in the 80's.
slow67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2011, 11:55 AM
LS1Tech
Pontiac Firebird




Paid Advertisement
Reply

Tags
axial, charger, compressor, efficient, engine, good, highest, idea, jet, latham, ls1, pvnrt, super, supercharger, tech


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2
Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - JOBS
Emails & Contact Details