What % of methanol gives the best protection of KR?
06-12-2012, 11:39 AM
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What % of methanol gives the best protection of KR? I've done a search and have found so much information and misinformation that my heads about to explode.
Bottom Line if my intake air temps are almost ambient what percentage of methanol gives the best resistance to knock on a boosted motor? Every once in awhile I'll get 1.0 to 2.0 degrees of KR on my datalog.
Bottom Line if my intake air temps are almost ambient what percentage of methanol gives the best resistance to knock on a boosted motor? Every once in awhile I'll get 1.0 to 2.0 degrees of KR on my datalog.
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06-12-2012, 07:01 PM
#8
Don't under value the benefits of water in the injection process. Water helps to not only cool the intake air temperatures, but it continues to cool the combustion chamber long after the methanol ignites. Heat in the chamber causes knock just as much as lower octane.
Back in my days as a formulation chemist at sunoco, we did tests measuring the impact that both combustion chamber temperature and octane had on knock resistance. Beleive me when I tell you that temperature had a much higher impact than octane. Keep the chambers and pistons cool, and you can run 87 or lower octane all day long.
Back in my days as a formulation chemist at sunoco, we did tests measuring the impact that both combustion chamber temperature and octane had on knock resistance. Beleive me when I tell you that temperature had a much higher impact than octane. Keep the chambers and pistons cool, and you can run 87 or lower octane all day long.
06-12-2012, 07:10 PM
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So what are the benefits to running 100% meth like Alky Control recommends? I also read that some % water can help spool a turbo faster because it expands more, but I don't know if that's true.
06-12-2012, 07:20 PM
#10
100% methanol is nice because it cools the iat dramatically, and adds energy to the combustion chamber. So you can make more power running 100% meoh compared to 100% water. Honestly, you can't add too much methanol.
It's all about what you're looking to get out of your methanol injection. Are you looking to add more timing and more power only? Then 100% methanol might be the best bet for you. Just realize that you're entire system from the tank to the pump to the lines and nozzle need to be compatible. Don't forget that it's extremely flammable, and burns clear. So loose a line, have it split, etc, and you have an engine bay fire and won't know it till everything is torched. Again, just make certain that if you plan to run 100% methanol, that you have a system that is designed to run it because methanol with eat away at a lot of different materials that is ok to run e85 and gas through.
It's all about what you're looking to get out of your methanol injection. Are you looking to add more timing and more power only? Then 100% methanol might be the best bet for you. Just realize that you're entire system from the tank to the pump to the lines and nozzle need to be compatible. Don't forget that it's extremely flammable, and burns clear. So loose a line, have it split, etc, and you have an engine bay fire and won't know it till everything is torched. Again, just make certain that if you plan to run 100% methanol, that you have a system that is designed to run it because methanol with eat away at a lot of different materials that is ok to run e85 and gas through.
06-12-2012, 07:33 PM
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From researching on here you are correct, to run 100% meth you need to buy a complete system. I have a chemical distributor 10 miles from my house that sells meth, and I will be looking to make the most power possible on a junkyard engine. The other downside to running straight meth is the availability if you run out, vs buying washer fluid at any gas station/store.
06-12-2012, 08:13 PM
#13
100%.
I experimented with up to as much as 50/50 in my turbo car and saw the same IAT reduction and mph gain at 15psi with 20% water as I did with 50% water. Had I gone higher I may of seen a difference. So for that I ran 80% m1/20% water for the added octane of the higher methanol content.
If I had been running more than 15psi and really pushing the small turbo I had for the size motor it was on, I would of been creating a lot higher charge temperatures. If that had been what I was running then the higher % of water in my injection mixture I had tried before might have made a bigger difference.
I had this discussion with tuners at the drag strip and got the same answer each time and that was more octane is always your friend.
I experimented with up to as much as 50/50 in my turbo car and saw the same IAT reduction and mph gain at 15psi with 20% water as I did with 50% water. Had I gone higher I may of seen a difference. So for that I ran 80% m1/20% water for the added octane of the higher methanol content.
If I had been running more than 15psi and really pushing the small turbo I had for the size motor it was on, I would of been creating a lot higher charge temperatures. If that had been what I was running then the higher % of water in my injection mixture I had tried before might have made a bigger difference.
I had this discussion with tuners at the drag strip and got the same answer each time and that was more octane is always your friend.
06-13-2012, 05:20 AM
#15
All I'm going to say is think about how critical plug temperature is to controlling knock. Temperature plays a much larger role in controlling knock than octane does, I know, I did the research myself.
If you're going after knock supression, keep the chamber and pistons cool, drop your plug temperature one step, and see how it reacts.
If you're going after knock supression, keep the chamber and pistons cool, drop your plug temperature one step, and see how it reacts.
06-13-2012, 10:00 AM
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All I'm going to say is think about how critical plug temperature is to controlling knock. Temperature plays a much larger role in controlling knock than octane does, I know, I did the research myself.
If you're going after knock supression, keep the chamber and pistons cool, drop your plug temperature one step, and see how it reacts.
If you're going after knock supression, keep the chamber and pistons cool, drop your plug temperature one step, and see how it reacts.
running a 50/50 mix presently, large nozzle, I can't remember the size.
390, etp heads
706/649 hp/tw
80lb injectors 77% dc @75psi
11.2afr's 15 degrees timing @ full boost.
4L80E 3600 stall unlocked. I think that's why there's such a difference in the hp/tq number vs injector dc. Numbers are from a Mustang dyno.