BigPlanTransAm

liquid nitrogen is extreemly cold just like nitrous(2/3nitrogen anyway)and i know some people spray nitrous on their intercoolers but i would think pure nitrogen would be a tad cooler and maybe even a little cheaper. i dont hear alot of talk about nitrous on the intercooler and i've heard none about pure nitrogen, has anyone tried this, is there any reason you cant? TIA

red ws6 99

Liquid nitrogen is around -330 Deg F, you have to keep it in a dewar (well insulated tank) or it will boil off fairly quickly. But yes it will cool down an intercooler very well. Its very cheap, but you have to have a well insulated storage tank.

Gary

GueSS Who

Ya like paintball tanks. Carbon Fiber is really light.

slow

iTrader: (7)

why not C02, cheap, easy to get, and colder than nitrous

Ryan

BigPlanTransAm

C02 is colder than nitrous, or did you mean nitrogen? i always thought pure nitrogen was one of the coldest liquids available to the public. anyway, do you think it would be a good idea to insulate a C02 tank as well?

BigPlanTransAm

oh, and not to postwhore but i would think there wouldnt be anything wrong with putting nitrogen into a nitrous tank would you? maybe if i wrap it in some type of insulation?

White_Hawk

iTrader: (3)

The cold comes from the pressure change, not because it is an extra cold liquid or anything. When gas goes from high pressure to low, it gets colder. When it goes from low pressure to high, it gets hotter (thus the need for an intercooler on boosted cars).

The only issue with doing it is making sure you don't get any into your intake track - nitrogen is inert and will kill your tuning.

-Geoff

smokinHawk

iTrader: (48)

doesnt NX make a kit for that called the inercooler.
Noyzee has it

NX says you can use Co2 nor n2o

slow

iTrader: (7)

nitrous compared to C02, the Co2 is colder,

liquid nitrogen is very very cold, but im not sure how you would "spray" it on a intercooler, as it is a liquid at 0 pressure, (if bottled, im sure it raises pressure, but not sure how high it will go to, the liquid nitrogen that is used at the engineering lab that i have used, has special pressure release devices.) where as C02 and N20 are already at 1000 psi, so the bottle pressure is not a problem, you just need to add a solenoid, and a fan.

Ryan

Koncrete

iTrader: (3)

the main problems with liquid nitrogen are

A) inerts gas - you dont wanna get this anywhere at the front of your car where is could get sucked into your intake

B) Freezes stuff to fast - if you ever get a chance run some through an intercooler pray you have 0% humidity because you will get I formations INSIDE the intercooler.....

here is some more data on nitrogen:

Nitrogen (N2) is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas that makes up 78.09% (by volume) of the air we breathe. It is nonflammable and it will not support combustion. It is colorless, odorless and tasteless.
Nitrogen gas is slightly lighter than air and slightly soluble in water. It is commonly thought of and used as an inert gas; but nitrogen will form compounds through biological activity, at high temperature, or at moderate temperature with the aid of catalysts. It forms nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide with oxygen, ammonia with hydrogen, and nitrogen sulfide with sulfur. At high temperatures it will combine with certain active metals, such as lithium, magnesium and titanium to form nitrides. It is necessary for various biological processes, and is a component of ammonia-based fertilizers. In combination with halogens and organic compounds, nitrogen can form explosive compounds.

Nitrogen condenses at its boiling point, -195.8o C (-320.4o F), to a colorless liquid that is lighter than water.

More nitrogen is used by customers than any other industrial gas. Nitrogen is produced as a gas by pressure swing adsorption or diffusion separation processes and in gaseous or liquid form by cryogenic distillation, Cryogenic processes can produce very pure nitrogen while adsorption and diffusion processes are typically used to make lower purity product in relatively small amounts, in particular when purity is not critical and alternatives (purchase of bulk liquid nitrogen, cylinders of high pressure nitrogen, or local cryogenic production) are more expensive or impractical.

Gaseous nitrogen is valued for inertness. It is used to shield potentially reactive materials from contact with oxygen.

Liquid nitrogen is valued for coldness as well as inertness. When liquid nitrogen is vaporized and warmed to ambient temperature, it absorbs a large quantity of heat. The combination of inertness and its intensely cold initial state makes liquid nitrogen an ideal coolant for certain applications such as food freezing. Liquid nitrogen is also used to make soft or heat sensitive materials such as used tires, plastics, certain metals and even pharmaceuticals hard so they can be machined or fractured.
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something to keep in mind nitrogen will splatter really bad on contact with anything that is not colder then its condensation point, so if your pouring into a small or even medium opening containor and you miss.......I hope you have a ski suit and a face shield.

here are some links for Liquid Nitrogen

fun stuff:
http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.de/~ubws/nitrogen.html
http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/fune.../nitrogen.html

and more serious stuff:
http://www.williams.edu/Physics/kfor...d_nitrogen.htm
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/safety/lnitcry.htm

CO2 is far, far safer, easier and more cost effective to use
but I do hope I have given you some decent information



BY THE WAY this is important, without special equipment to keep the temprature down
DO NOT PRESSURIZE LIQUID NITROGEN
you will blow something if you do the pressure will warm it causing it to phase from liquid to vapor, and it takes ALOT of vapor to make liquid, a hell of a lot

S_J_H

Actually n2o is colder than co2. -129F for nitrous and -109F for Co2

BigPlanTransAm

very interesting, but how come liquid nitrous doesnt explode when pressurized inside of a bottle, even with a bottle heater? afterall, it is 2/3 nitrogen and very cold.
im not disputing what you're saying, im just a curious guy.

BigPlanTransAm

very interesting, but how come liquid nitrous doesnt explode when pressurized inside of a bottle, even with a bottle heater? afterall, it is 2/3 nitrogen and very cold.
im not disputing what you're saying, im just a curious guy.

red ws6 99

Nitrous is in gaseous form not liquid. The temperature drop you get when injecting it into the engine is strictly from expansion of the gas (high pressure to low pressure)

There is no issue with pressurizing liquid nitrogen with an external source (as long the tank can handle it), that would actually keep it liquid form more easily.

The issue with liquid nitrogen is that is the temperature gets above the boiling point it expands, if I remember right its about 600:1 expansion ratio. Pressurized tanks are vacuum jacketed, have relief valves and have a continously open vent line so pressure can not build up.

Also, you can poor liquid nitrogen on your skin without much worry of damage. If you get it on standard clothes, it will stay in contact with your skin for a few seconds it will definetly freeze.

We use two or three semi-truck loads a week at work. We store the liquid nitrogen in tanks and convert some to gaseous nitrogen to pressurize test systems. All clothes we use are treated with a chemical that prevents absorbtion and we definetly have eye and face protection.

Gary

Koncrete

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't want a pressurized bottle of liquid nitrogen inside or outside
with an expansion rate of 696.........one frozen valve and you could potentialy blow the side of your car off......
here is a link for some safety issues I have been reading about

http://www.inform.umd.edu/CampusInfo...idNitrogen.ppt

and bigplantransam - nitrous is a gas, liquid nitrogen is a liquid.
nitrous is at 1000psi give or take a hundred or so

liquid nitrogen has an expansion rate somewhere at 696:1

so if you have 1 quart and it all manages to go through phase change at the same time you will have 173 gallons of pressurized air needing to find a vent somewhere -this is extreme but without proper precaution

red ws6 99 you are correct it really wont hurt skin with minimum exposure, but I can see someone accidentally pouring this on thier foot and with the low viscosity of this in liquid form it will go into any regular clothing.....

BigPlanTransAm

so its really not practical at all in an automotive setup due to the reliability and safety issues associated with it. and the steps needed to make it safe and reliable would probably negate the performance gained by its use. you would basically need a refrigerator(or a rigged up ac)running all the time to keep it cool enough inside its insulation.

02BlueFirehawk

Now that the theoretical b.s. is out of the way, just run nitrous (~$4/lb) or even cheaper co2 (~$2/lb).

BigPlanTransAm

nitrous is $5/lb up here and i already have it anyway, but its just something to hold me back in the seat untill i find the right turbo . my favorite thing about FI is that there are so many more ways to make power as opposed to NA or N20 where your options are basically more radical heads/cam and jet up.
so really it looks like C02 is the way to go for intercooler spray.

Koncrete

iTrader: (3)

yea just stay with nitrous or use CO2 for cooling.....