winters97gt

So, I am picking up an FRC this week. My last 6 speed Vette this year ran 9.6-9.8s every pass in full street trim before I sold it with the stock driveline(minus the clutch). It made 814rwhp on 12psi with the air filter on the blower with an ECS Novi 1500(T-trim size) at 12PSI on a 402, and 850rwhp at 14psi without the filter though I never ran it at the track without the filter since I had no screen. I speced the cam myself, it was a 232/244-118+2LSA and lift in the .600 area(nothing crazy, idled like stock for the wife). The cool thing about the car was I would drop the targa top, go to the track, rip off 9's and drive home 90 miles round trip.

This car should be a little harder. Right now, the car is a stock LS1 with TSP 5.3 heads and their Torquer V3 cam. I'm thinking of going with a 346-383 CI built Shortblock at 10.1-10.5:1 compression(I like compression and lots of meth, I hate sluggish blower cars down low on the street), but would like to keep it on a budget. I'd like to use the 5.3 heads on it to save money, use the stock crank if possible(346), but not sure that they are sufficient for 800rwhp on a car. I know the crank is capable of it, but not sure if the heads are. I've also seen a large spread in hp/tq on the smaller CI blower motor builds, which I'm not a big fan of. My 402 with the 1500 made 775-800rwtq on numerous dynos. It had ***** down low for cruising on the street.

I'm looking for around 800rwhp. Something to get the car in the 9's in full street trim with no drag pack, weight reduced, etc, etc. Just like my C6. Looking at a Novi 2200-YSI on the smaller cubed motor most likely.

End Goal would be 800/700 to the tires. Not a 800/640 car with a 160tq spread from the HP. Suggestions to get there welcome.

EDIT, I will be adding my trusty McCleod RXT clutch, a TR6060, and C6Z06 Diff next year when I start racing, just want to get engine setup figured out now.

itsslow98

iTrader: (18)

I would do a forged 370 if you wanna stay in that CI range. Personally I would sell the 5.3s and put something with a thicker deck on it like trick flows or AFRs. You will have to put out a little money but its a better build.

winters97gt

That's where the money comes in to play. My last car was an 08, but with a aluminum 6.0 motor with Greg Good ported LS3 heads. More $$$ from what I have now in the car, but willing to spend it. That's what I am not wanting to hear though, but I appreciate it and might be the truth. I'd rather not spend the money on trickflow or AFR 225's, but will if I have to. It's kind of a balance of how to get to my goals. More cubes, better heads with less blower, or go less cubes, keep the heads and up the boost. I've always been a fan of less boost, more compression with a spot on SD tune with lots of meth.

allout06

iTrader: (11)

subscribed. in the same boat as you. i was looking at a built long block from AES. i want to sell my D1 and pick up an F1A and make 850rwhp. but...at the same time i could prolly save some money and stay stock cube and put in a rotating assembly and max this D1and make the same power just with a lot more boost but Im like you i dont want a doggy street car down low and thats what mainly my car is. Im also worried about detonation running higher boost. so Im stuck....

winters97gt

Exactly. My engine builder just quoted me 2600 for the complete shortblock. I've got the CNC 5.3 heads already, which are nowhere near as good as my ported LS3 heads. I think 800 is doable, but want more opinions

ajrothm

Mark

I think best bang for the buck is use your stock block, put forged guts in it, keep the 5.3 heads on it since they flow decent. (You'll have dished pistons in it anyway). Set the compression at 10.0-1. I would get a blower cam from Arun like his stg 2 or 3. Put studs through out the motor. Basically about a $4k long block using your stuff.

Spend the money on the blower, I would run atleast a YSI or Novi 2200. More flow and more power at the same impeller speeds. Use your same headers/exhaust if it is all good stuff. Put a good fuel system/Alky Control meth on it and you're good. Should make 800+ no problem and still be responsive off boost...(small port cathedrals, stock ls6 intake, smallish cam and 10:1 comp)...

Spin it to 6800-7000 and it should make damn good power for not TOO much money....comparatively speaking. Bang for the buck goes way down after the 800hp power level..(for instance I have $11k in my motor alone and won't make much if any more power then your $4k motor)..

Keep it simple. Follow Aruns combos..

winters97gt

Thanks for the detailed response, Alan. I like Arun's grinds from what I have seen on the net, but have not seen them in person run. The results are obviously very impressive, but not sure it's for me. That is the reason I speced my last cam, against a lot of people's advice after they saw what I was doing, and will probably do so regardless of who says what. I think Arun shot down my cam specs to a buddy of mine who we both know(Bully). Shoot, the car still hauled ***, 149mph with no drag pack, full weight on an ECS 1500 with a 25mph direct headwind is no joke with fbody wheels and a cage, and with only about 20 passes in the car, 10 with the setup. I was trapping right there with BIG RED, 427 YSI that made mid 900's on our track rental day, and I was making 814 on that tune. I'm just not completely sold on the cam specs yet, not for power, but for my driving style.

I like a cam with a decent split and a high LSA. I live in a highrise and it takes a while to get to my parking spot. I could lug my cam up the garage inclines with no gas in either 1st or 2nd gear just at idle. It was like a stock car in the 402. Bully drove my car after buying one of Arun's cams for his 1000+rwhp build. He drove it the entire day when we ran errands getting it ready for the new owner. He told me that if he would have known what I was talking about with regards to the drivability, he would have gone with the same cam. My wife also does not like any lope.

ajrothm

I'm with you bro.. I wanted just enough cam to have some sound at idle but I didn't want all of the cam surge and idle hunting etc etc that comes with big cams, especially the lack of part throttle torque below 3500...

I had an MS3 in a stock LS1/m6 and hated it. It was a complete dog below 4000...I felt it was considerably slower then when it had the stock cam under 4k. Most will argue that when racing you're never under 4k but... Living in Houston, we need that low rpm power/response.

I swore I'd never over cam an engine again.

That's why on my 402 I went with Arun's stg 2. It's a tiny little cam for a 402 but I think the driveability will be awesome and tons of off idle power. The specs on it are 226/238 on a 115lsa. 605/615".

I'll know in the next couple weeks how it drives. Hopefully it will support atleast 850hp...(or better yet 900). Arun thinks it will peak real early. I guess we'll see.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with for your build!

PS..
I thought the black car ran like 143 mph on motor and 148 on spray? I watched a bunch of your vids way back then and don't remember the trap that high. Pretty damn good though to trap 148 on only 814rwhp.. Better then most, especially at full weight.

winters97gt

Thanks Alan! Yes, it did trap 143-144mph with a slight cool down after the DA picked up and winds started to howl. Since you watched the videos, you can see how strong the wind was. However, my fastest trap was a 149mph off the bottle on the ECS 1500 only. Mikey(Gforce) wasn't even out there yet with his laptop for my spray tune. He had the bottles on our track rental day, and my tune, so I had no bottle even in the car, which many people including LMR if they remember can verifty. I have people to verify that my car went 149 with just the ECS 1500. I dogged the car the night before street racing, and it wouldn't have done what it did with the nitrous and 13-14* of timing. The car had 18* of timing with pump gas and meth on this tune, which Mikey can send you if you want. I don't want to post my amatuer slip, but I will. The car had a full 45 minute cool down before I made this pass with the best DA, and I directed the intercooler in to the cold head wind to try and cool it off the car. It was also the first pass of the day, and why the 60ft sucks because I didn't want to break the first pass.


I only made 5 passes on the track rental day.

Here are the passes that day off the bottle.




Here are the passes manually turning on the bottle at the top of 2nd gear, going in to 3rd gear. As you can see, it didn't do anything for me, just .13. It would have helped me if I sprayed out of the hole, but I had the stock C6 driveline. If I had a Z06 diff, and a brace, I might have sprayed it out of the hole, but with my C5 experience of breaking parts, I didn't do it. My best 60ft came a couple weeks before on my 3rd pass, when I cut a 1.46 60ft, but then got the boot.

Here are the nitrous passes of the same day. First pass, missed 2nd gear, and was late turning on the spray.



The weather/headwind was a lot, and we didn't lean on the car during the boost only passes. 10.8 AFR.

winters97gt

EDIT, as you can see Alan and others, I have a ways to go driving wise. These cars are just so much harder to run in street trim at the track with a 6 speed on radials and no skinnies/etc. I'm trying to keep my pride on this next car and not go to bias ply/gto spares or a drag pack and still run 9's. My definition of a "street car" is a little different than the older crowd that race in events. Change nothing, drive it hundreds of miles in the rain, etc. with no weight removed. I like to be able to just line up and run the car, nothing changed.

ajrothm

LOL @ MARK....

Dude you dont have to prove anything to me.... I believe you man. I was just uninformed that it ran 149 on motor..... It made sense to run 143 mph on motor and then 149 on spray...

I just remember seeing a lot of 143 passes through the various vids/days and only saw the 149 thing once or twice so I thought it was spray.

**** your a better driver then 98% of people out there, especially running on a 17" radial going 1.4x 60's....

You'll be making a pass in my car for sure....because I can't drive for ****...

Mine WILL be on a drag pack and skinnies though... I will NOT run my car at HRP on drag radials any more.....Too much chance of wheel hop and breaking ****.... Its already come home from HRP on a flat bed 3 times..... Hell I'm not even driving it to the track next time out, I'll trailer that bitch so I have a ride home... I've spent $600 on wreckers to get home...

js2fst

iTrader: (12)

As person who would not run a procharger when they came out. I bought Paxton then whipple, then vortec, then kb. I swore no more supercharges, I got talked into a procharger for my boat. Then one was on my Ta when we bought it. Street car procharger is the only way

venom ws7

iTrader: (13)

Built 346-347ci 10:1 comp + a nice blower cam + same heads on the car
Novi 2200 or YSI and lots Meth on 16+lbs will a great/easy setup to reach your goals..

What Headers/Catback on the car?

I'm looking forward to seeing the new vids rowing gears with beast Mark.
Keep us posted.

eb02z06

iTrader: (18)

Maybe there are fast cars running 116+ centerlines.

You have me thinking Mark.

I use what I learned from the early days and apply that to what is being done now. I try to keep it simple-make good power N/A and just add boost.I just haven't seen any cars with wide splits run fast.

So I blend as much strip with street to get a balance you can live with.

Maybe I'm wrong, if my car's converter could be locked at WOT-I would test out the different centerlines.

Bullys' cam is a clone of mine-it will chop, stink at idle but when you hit the go peddle it will scream right away and you won't know where it gives up. But even though it's obnoxious-it can still be driven everyday. I have my car tuned so well that my wife can fire it up and take the car to go pick up take out.

It takes time to tune-but it can be done. When I was tuning for Champion my car would see 200 mile round trips every saturday.

If someone wants to test centerlines-I will gladly sell you 2 cams at my cost.

You know after I get my car dialed in-I will start working on something more "driver" friendly-but if doesn't go 160+ I will go back to the chop-lol!!!

Mark when you dyno'd your car did you dyno on a dynojet? Any way to post your pulls and even maybe send me your dynojet files if you have them.

Then I can overlay some different cams with different centerlines to see where the gains losses are.

winters97gt

Well, looks like it is done. I'm going with a YSI and Arun's(eb02zo6) recommendations on cam setup. Extremely knowledgable guy and I really appreciate it!