Poor mans LSX Real Street.......Car is sold- New car/Wifes car= new updates
11-13-2012, 07:13 AM
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Poor mans LSX Real Street.......Car is sold- New car/Wifes car= new updates My goal is to take what i have and try to run in the Real Street class next year, wether that is possible or not i dont really know. But i'm going to try like hell and have fun doing it!
Man have plans changed, I'm sure we all know how that goes. I'm turning this into a build thread and still welcome and appreciate help from others.....that's why i started this post to begin with. Pics of progress to follow as well
I have a 2000 WS6 with a 408ci that i had built by HKE back in 2007. Here is the only information i can find anymore about the engine
Rollmaster LS1 Double Roller Timing Chain
Scorpion Roller Rocker 1.7 ratio
Hope my wife enjoys this engine, it was awesome to me for the last 5 years. Although she will be getting a much smaller camshaft....she is awesomly crazy with a serious led foot. She once told me she'll never race on the track because every stop light is the same thing to her.
I'm going to use the BW S476 turbo and C16 will be the fuel. I'd like to keep the heads i have currently and will be getting in touch with B. Tooley soon enough to get the springs setup and more. So really I only want to change the camshaft and intake if possible, but hey i'm open to most options. I'm looking for camshaft and rocker recommendations. Can it work with hydraulic or do I need solid roller setup?
Man have plans changed, I'm sure we all know how that goes. I'm turning this into a build thread and still welcome and appreciate help from others.....that's why i started this post to begin with. Pics of progress to follow as well
I have a 2000 WS6 with a 408ci that i had built by HKE back in 2007. Here is the only information i can find anymore about the engine
Core 6.0 LS1 Block
Callies 4340 LS1 4.000 Crankshaft With 2.000 Rod Journals
Callies Compstar 6.125 LS1 Rods W/ ARP 2000 rod bolts for
2.000 Rod Journals
Diamond Custom Pistons 4.XXX Bore NOS
Diamond TNT Piston Rings
Federal Mogul 152M 3/4 Groove Main Bearings for LS1 Coated
ACL CB 663 H Rod Bearings for 2.100 SBC Chamfered Race
Bearings Coated
ARP 234-5608 Main Studs for LS1
GM 1255-6127 LS1 Side Bolts
TFS LS1 Head 225 all-CNC 345 cfm intake 240 cfm exhaust with 64cc Chambers
GM 6.0 MLS Head Gaskets #12589227
ARP 234-4317 Head Studs for LS1
Custom HKE Cam 248 / 256 / 113+4
Morel LS1 Hydraulic Roller Lifters
TFS 5/16 Pushrods Callies 4340 LS1 4.000 Crankshaft With 2.000 Rod Journals
Callies Compstar 6.125 LS1 Rods W/ ARP 2000 rod bolts for
2.000 Rod Journals
Diamond Custom Pistons 4.XXX Bore NOS
Diamond TNT Piston Rings
Federal Mogul 152M 3/4 Groove Main Bearings for LS1 Coated
ACL CB 663 H Rod Bearings for 2.100 SBC Chamfered Race
Bearings Coated
ARP 234-5608 Main Studs for LS1
GM 1255-6127 LS1 Side Bolts
TFS LS1 Head 225 all-CNC 345 cfm intake 240 cfm exhaust with 64cc Chambers
GM 6.0 MLS Head Gaskets #12589227
ARP 234-4317 Head Studs for LS1
Custom HKE Cam 248 / 256 / 113+4
Morel LS1 Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Rollmaster LS1 Double Roller Timing Chain
Scorpion Roller Rocker 1.7 ratio
Hope my wife enjoys this engine, it was awesome to me for the last 5 years. Although she will be getting a much smaller camshaft....she is awesomly crazy with a serious led foot. She once told me she'll never race on the track because every stop light is the same thing to her.
I'm going to use the BW S476 turbo and C16 will be the fuel. I'd like to keep the heads i have currently and will be getting in touch with B. Tooley soon enough to get the springs setup and more. So really I only want to change the camshaft and intake if possible, but hey i'm open to most options. I'm looking for camshaft and rocker recommendations. Can it work with hydraulic or do I need solid roller setup?
Last edited by GrimReaper; 07-18-2013 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Sleepless nights
11-13-2012, 03:42 PM
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I'm going to work really hard to try to crack off an 8.80 or faster this year. I know the big dogs are going .50's , but i'm going to do what i can with what i have this year. I'll be doing all this work outta my garage at home. Should be fun!
11-15-2012, 11:24 AM
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Turbos are very new to me so it's still a learning process. But yes it is, I was talking with quickcarl over on YB and he had said the same thing. He had said I would need to monitor back pressure and dump excess via the gate, and the camshaft and back pressure dump would need to work together to keep reversion in check while letting the engine breath via longer duration. That was about as far as I got. Thought I'd throw it out here and see what some of the guys would think about it
11-23-2012, 05:50 PM
#6
I wouldnt consider me a big dog running in the .50's, I also built my car in my garage at home.
The big dogs went .40's and .30's. I would wait for final rule adjustments are relased before I start planning much of anything more.
as far as camshaft and rockers, I am a nitrous dummy, but I always feel shaft rockers add stability to the valvetrain in the long run.
The big dogs went .40's and .30's. I would wait for final rule adjustments are relased before I start planning much of anything more.
as far as camshaft and rockers, I am a nitrous dummy, but I always feel shaft rockers add stability to the valvetrain in the long run.
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11-23-2012, 11:56 PM
#8
Hydraulic would be cheaper and with stock rockers makes for a lightweight dummy proof set-up...
Solid will make more power for sure no doubt about it and will allow more overlap to be taken out of the profile at .020 with a more aggressive lobe profile. With your cubic inches and turbine options this is critical to keeping the shaft speed down and not having an unbalanced amount of drive pressure versus manifold pressure. Shaft is interconnected so you need to keep both sides happy.
You will most likely need a reverse grind for the cubic inches you're running and the turbo selection you're limited to. I take it you'll be running a S476 T6 1.32 AR turbo? If not that's the only one I would look at the S476R to be exact, and since the billet wheel is allowed in LSX Real Street I'd go straight to it and not even consider the cast wheel if you want to get everything out of this combination.
I can spec you a cam if you would like. Let me know.
Added: Am I missing what intake you're using or are you asking for suggestions on that too? It will influence the cam profile and should be nailed down before the cam profile is selected.
Solid will make more power for sure no doubt about it and will allow more overlap to be taken out of the profile at .020 with a more aggressive lobe profile. With your cubic inches and turbine options this is critical to keeping the shaft speed down and not having an unbalanced amount of drive pressure versus manifold pressure. Shaft is interconnected so you need to keep both sides happy.
You will most likely need a reverse grind for the cubic inches you're running and the turbo selection you're limited to. I take it you'll be running a S476 T6 1.32 AR turbo? If not that's the only one I would look at the S476R to be exact, and since the billet wheel is allowed in LSX Real Street I'd go straight to it and not even consider the cast wheel if you want to get everything out of this combination.
I can spec you a cam if you would like. Let me know.
Added: Am I missing what intake you're using or are you asking for suggestions on that too? It will influence the cam profile and should be nailed down before the cam profile is selected.
11-26-2012, 05:57 AM
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I wouldnt consider me a big dog running in the .50's, I also built my car in my garage at home.
The big dogs went .40's and .30's. I would wait for final rule adjustments are relased before I start planning much of anything more.
as far as camshaft and rockers, I am a nitrous dummy, but I always feel shaft rockers add stability to the valvetrain in the long run.
The big dogs went .40's and .30's. I would wait for final rule adjustments are relased before I start planning much of anything more.
as far as camshaft and rockers, I am a nitrous dummy, but I always feel shaft rockers add stability to the valvetrain in the long run.
I do agreee on the shaft rockers too.....got a preference?
11-26-2012, 05:59 AM
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Carolina is usually rocking, i lived in Mooresville for a few year. Got some good buddies in the Raleigh area too!
Maybe in a few years i can go that fast, but by then they'll all be faster too. Lottery?? haha
11-26-2012, 06:14 AM
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Hydraulic would be cheaper and with stock rockers makes for a lightweight dummy proof set-up...
Solid will make more power for sure no doubt about it and will allow more overlap to be taken out of the profile at .020 with a more aggressive lobe profile. With your cubic inches and turbine options this is critical to keeping the shaft speed down and not having an unbalanced amount of drive pressure versus manifold pressure. Shaft is interconnected so you need to keep both sides happy.
You will most likely need a reverse grind for the cubic inches you're running and the turbo selection you're limited to. I take it you'll be running a S476 T6 1.32 AR turbo? If not that's the only one I would look at the S476R to be exact, and since the billet wheel is allowed in LSX Real Street I'd go straight to it and not even consider the cast wheel if you want to get everything out of this combination.
I can spec you a cam if you would like. Let me know.
Added: Am I missing what intake you're using or are you asking for suggestions on that too? It will influence the cam profile and should be nailed down before the cam profile is selected.
Solid will make more power for sure no doubt about it and will allow more overlap to be taken out of the profile at .020 with a more aggressive lobe profile. With your cubic inches and turbine options this is critical to keeping the shaft speed down and not having an unbalanced amount of drive pressure versus manifold pressure. Shaft is interconnected so you need to keep both sides happy.
You will most likely need a reverse grind for the cubic inches you're running and the turbo selection you're limited to. I take it you'll be running a S476 T6 1.32 AR turbo? If not that's the only one I would look at the S476R to be exact, and since the billet wheel is allowed in LSX Real Street I'd go straight to it and not even consider the cast wheel if you want to get everything out of this combination.
I can spec you a cam if you would like. Let me know.
Added: Am I missing what intake you're using or are you asking for suggestions on that too? It will influence the cam profile and should be nailed down before the cam profile is selected.
I appreciate the responses, was starting to think i wouldnt get any, no you didn't miss the intake. I guess it could go either way, i have a fast 90 so i could use that, but again i'm open here as well.
Yes i am using the S476R, my wife has been beating me up about putting some power into her WS6 so i might just pull the 408 from my car and drop it straight into hers. I did see AES had some good pricing on short blocks and heads. Hell i really dont know what to do at this point. I've got about 10k to play with, but i dont want to put it all into one item.
Ive got the hot side, intercooler (Procharger Race 1300hp) and procharger race valve, Tial 60mm gate and AMS500. Car currently has BS3 as well.
So really long ramble short, i wanted to see what some guys here thought about it all and what routes are possible.
Either way....thanks dudes!
11-26-2012, 12:32 PM
#12
I appreciate the responses, was starting to think i wouldnt get any, no you didn't miss the intake. I guess it could go either way, i have a fast 90 so i could use that, but again i'm open here as well.
Yes i am using the S476R, my wife has been beating me up about putting some power into her WS6 so i might just pull the 408 from my car and drop it straight into hers. I did see AES had some good pricing on short blocks and heads. Hell i really dont know what to do at this point. I've got about 10k to play with, but i dont want to put it all into one item.
Ive got the hot side, intercooler (Procharger Race 1300hp) and procharger race valve, Tial 60mm gate and AMS500. Car currently has BS3 as well.
So really long ramble short, i wanted to see what some guys here thought about it all and what routes are possible.
Either way....thanks dudes!
Yes i am using the S476R, my wife has been beating me up about putting some power into her WS6 so i might just pull the 408 from my car and drop it straight into hers. I did see AES had some good pricing on short blocks and heads. Hell i really dont know what to do at this point. I've got about 10k to play with, but i dont want to put it all into one item.
Ive got the hot side, intercooler (Procharger Race 1300hp) and procharger race valve, Tial 60mm gate and AMS500. Car currently has BS3 as well.
So really long ramble short, i wanted to see what some guys here thought about it all and what routes are possible.
Either way....thanks dudes!
There is a guy in our local RS275 class that WheelsupZ was referring to that has been 5.29@131 with a 427 SBC and a S475 T6 1.32 AR turbo. He runs a blow through carb non-intercooled set-up with E85 fueling it. His car puts all normal thought to bed about large engines and smaller turbo's not working together. He constantly fiddles with it though and has tried just about everything known to man to get it go faster and he seems to be dead locked in the low 5.30 high 5.20 range, but it runs damn good and is quick to the 60' and 330' where he wins 9/10 of his races.
I don't know what he has for a camshaft, but I assume it's at least a single pattern or a reverse grind with low overlap numbers. This is what you would need to do for the 408 if you went in that direction.
I think with a TH400 a 3.25 gear and that engine you can really run some good numbers although I'd use a Power Glide and possibly a 3.42-3.50 rear gear.
11-26-2012, 01:22 PM
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If its do-able then i'll try like hell, my concern here is we mostly run 1/4....you think it'll hang on the back half?
I'm keep the TH400, i dont want to get into a trans change
Well i guess i'm curious as to what cam you think will get me there?
Can i use stock rockers with the trunion upgrade or should i just go get some shaft mount?
I'm keep the TH400, i dont want to get into a trans change
Well i guess i'm curious as to what cam you think will get me there?
Can i use stock rockers with the trunion upgrade or should i just go get some shaft mount?
I would do a Super Victor intake manifold or a Edelbrock Pro-Flo/Holley Hi-Ram for the intake. I think the 408 can be just as fast as the smaller cubic inch motor if certain parts of the build are tended to that allow the larger engine to be utilized.
There is a guy in our local RS275 class that WheelsupZ was referring to that has been 5.29@131 with a 427 SBC and a S475 T6 1.32 AR turbo. He runs a blow through carb non-intercooled set-up with E85 fueling it. His car puts all normal thought to bed about large engines and smaller turbo's not working together. He constantly fiddles with it though and has tried just about everything known to man to get it go faster and he seems to be dead locked in the low 5.30 high 5.20 range, but it runs damn good and is quick to the 60' and 330' where he wins 9/10 of his races.
I don't know what he has for a camshaft, but I assume it's at least a single pattern or a reverse grind with low overlap numbers. This is what you would need to do for the 408 if you went in that direction.
I think with a TH400 a 3.25 gear and that engine you can really run some good numbers although I'd use a Power Glide and possibly a 3.42-3.50 rear gear.
There is a guy in our local RS275 class that WheelsupZ was referring to that has been 5.29@131 with a 427 SBC and a S475 T6 1.32 AR turbo. He runs a blow through carb non-intercooled set-up with E85 fueling it. His car puts all normal thought to bed about large engines and smaller turbo's not working together. He constantly fiddles with it though and has tried just about everything known to man to get it go faster and he seems to be dead locked in the low 5.30 high 5.20 range, but it runs damn good and is quick to the 60' and 330' where he wins 9/10 of his races.
I don't know what he has for a camshaft, but I assume it's at least a single pattern or a reverse grind with low overlap numbers. This is what you would need to do for the 408 if you went in that direction.
I think with a TH400 a 3.25 gear and that engine you can really run some good numbers although I'd use a Power Glide and possibly a 3.42-3.50 rear gear.
11-26-2012, 02:24 PM
#14
If its do-able then i'll try like hell, my concern here is we mostly run 1/4....you think it'll hang on the back half?
I'm keep the TH400, i dont want to get into a trans change
Well i guess i'm curious as to what cam you think will get me there?
Can i use stock rockers with the trunion upgrade or should i just go get some shaft mount?
I'm keep the TH400, i dont want to get into a trans change
Well i guess i'm curious as to what cam you think will get me there?
Can i use stock rockers with the trunion upgrade or should i just go get some shaft mount?
The cam would take some planning for with the top end induction package in mind, but IMO it would need a reverse split to work at it's best. I know there will be some guys that would probably say just do the smaller motor and be done with it and not worry about that, but I truly think the larger motor can and will be faster.
Shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll see what I can come up with for a cam profile.
11-26-2012, 02:43 PM
#15
Oh and Anthony Peck ran a hydraulic cam with stock trunion upgraded rockers when he won True Street the first time at LSfest this year and used them to run as fast as 5.teens@135+ in the 1/8th and low 8's in the 1/4. I'd say they'll work just fine for what you want to do.
If you went solid roller though which still isn't out of the question and would actually be my preference in a build like this to take some overlap out of the cam @.020 with a more aggressive lobe that can be utilized with a solid lifter.
If you went solid roller though which still isn't out of the question and would actually be my preference in a build like this to take some overlap out of the cam @.020 with a more aggressive lobe that can be utilized with a solid lifter.
12-31-2012, 04:18 PM
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Well it's been a while since i've done anything with this thread, but that doesn't mean i haven't been busy. I have done my fair share of calling around to see what i can do with this car and really I've made the decision not to tear into my 408, but rather put that complete engine into my wifes car and just start fresh with mine.
I've called a few companies and haven't called some as well, in the end i've gone with AES because they are willing to do the best they can with the budget i've given them. So cubic inches will be right at 370, callies crank and rods along with some custom diamond pistons. I have the hot side, blow off valve and intercooler and now have ordered the short block. I'm still undecided as what i should do for heads and a camshaft but i still have some time to figure it all out. And either way i go with heads it will still be a plastic intake.
Today i went out to the garage and started to remove some of the nitrous parts and tangled a little bit with the wiring....I'll do more tomorrow as well. But for now here are some pics of what went down today.
Leash box.....hopefully this helps clean up some wiring
My English Mastiff Moose got to close when i was emptying the nitrous bottles and got a burn on his lip....crazy i know right
All my direct port stuff is going to be best friends car, I cut Dwayne a deal he couldn't refuse.....I've had it with nitrous and didnt want to see it again. $500 from bottles to intake....I hope it does him well
I made wiring harness to connect the under hood wires to the dash wiring, it was helpful in trouble shooting and intake removal
What a mess!!! Ahhh
Not bad progress today, but the wifey wanted some icecream so this was all i got done today.
Tomorrow i will be back at it again, with more pics to follow. And if i can't get myself off the web i may end up with some more parts!
I've called a few companies and haven't called some as well, in the end i've gone with AES because they are willing to do the best they can with the budget i've given them. So cubic inches will be right at 370, callies crank and rods along with some custom diamond pistons. I have the hot side, blow off valve and intercooler and now have ordered the short block. I'm still undecided as what i should do for heads and a camshaft but i still have some time to figure it all out. And either way i go with heads it will still be a plastic intake.
Today i went out to the garage and started to remove some of the nitrous parts and tangled a little bit with the wiring....I'll do more tomorrow as well. But for now here are some pics of what went down today.
Leash box.....hopefully this helps clean up some wiring
My English Mastiff Moose got to close when i was emptying the nitrous bottles and got a burn on his lip....crazy i know right
All my direct port stuff is going to be best friends car, I cut Dwayne a deal he couldn't refuse.....I've had it with nitrous and didnt want to see it again. $500 from bottles to intake....I hope it does him well
I made wiring harness to connect the under hood wires to the dash wiring, it was helpful in trouble shooting and intake removal
What a mess!!! Ahhh
Not bad progress today, but the wifey wanted some icecream so this was all i got done today.
Tomorrow i will be back at it again, with more pics to follow. And if i can't get myself off the web i may end up with some more parts!
12-31-2012, 07:10 PM
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http://www.leashelectronics.com/ is where you order it from, he makes great stuff.
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Leash electronics
If the link is not allowable I apologize.
Leash electronics