Budget/eBay head studs
08-14-2013, 01:21 PM
#42
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procomp has them (back)on the shelf . I just ordered some PC2464
their site is not showing them in a search. the IT guys apparantly deleted the number rather than correcting the info on application.
their site is not showing them in a search. the IT guys apparantly deleted the number rather than correcting the info on application.
Last edited by looter; 08-14-2013 at 01:33 PM.
08-14-2013, 04:27 PM
#43
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Does anybody have any extra ARP and procomp studs laying around? I just ordered some pro comps as well, but would be interested to see some actual numbers. Testing is not very expensive, check out the link below. I'd be willing to carry the cost of the tests if somebody is willing to donate a stud or two.
http://www.cmstestdenver.com/
http://www.cmstestdenver.com/
11-19-2013, 06:45 AM
#46
On The Tree
not sure what instructions some are reading..or if I am getting post info wrong, the ones we used said finger tight/snug on the studs in the block w/lube, then 80 on the nuts, so are some trying to torque the studs in the block ? wrong...we ran the ebay ones @ 25psi...
Last edited by ezstriper; 11-19-2013 at 07:31 AM.
11-19-2013, 11:14 AM
#50
i used to use the studs in my builds
i have stopped using them and i still dont have issues with stock head bolts and stock paper gaskets
i think most people's tuneups, and internet myths are to blame.
clever product placement if you ask me.
i have stopped using them and i still dont have issues with stock head bolts and stock paper gaskets
i think most people's tuneups, and internet myths are to blame.
clever product placement if you ask me.
11-19-2013, 01:15 PM
#52
I agree with you though if the motors never been apart. I've heard of a few having issues pushing coolant with the non MLS gaskets... even with studs. I know I have with other boosted engines.
OEM head bolts are still one time use deals. (no matter what some get away with!) They aren't going to provide as good of a clamping force the second time around. A new set of TTY bolts costs about the same as the china studs. I'd go with studs over the OEM bolts anyday.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 11-19-2013 at 02:06 PM.
11-19-2013, 01:55 PM
#53
I dunno about all that. A stud is just a better design that provides better clamping force... period.
I agree with you though if the motors never been apart. I believe skinnies had some issues pushing coolant with the non MLS gaskets... even with studs. I know I have with other boosted engines.
I agree with you though if the motors never been apart. I believe skinnies had some issues pushing coolant with the non MLS gaskets... even with studs. I know I have with other boosted engines.
11-19-2013, 05:10 PM
#56
I used the Pro Comps. Took awhile to get them.
I used a small file to clean up the threads prior to installing them. Some were dinged up a bit. Something you wouldn't see on the ARP I'm sure.
That said, i used the ARP lube, and torqued in 4 steps to 75 ft lbs. I'm sure they are fine. Late L33, so all are the same length.
I used the std LS1 GM MLS gaskets.
I guess I'll find out if it all works when I boost it up in the spring......
Ron
I used a small file to clean up the threads prior to installing them. Some were dinged up a bit. Something you wouldn't see on the ARP I'm sure.
That said, i used the ARP lube, and torqued in 4 steps to 75 ft lbs. I'm sure they are fine. Late L33, so all are the same length.
I used the std LS1 GM MLS gaskets.
I guess I'll find out if it all works when I boost it up in the spring......
Ron
01-17-2014, 03:42 PM
#57
Did you use actual moly-lube or ARP thread lube?
Hope to be finishing up the heads/topend this weekend with china studs.
Found a few things I thought were ODD. (or didn't understand)
ARP and the China studs are made of 8740 “Chrome Moly” steel. (thought it was chromoly?)
China studs claim 205,000psi strength. (is that tensile?)
ARP studs claim 190,000psi strength.
Does the “PSI strength” really even mean anything? Does it mean the china studs are more brittle and will stretch less than an ARP but have stronger overall tensile strength? Or does it mean they will stretch more before failure? Anyone know?
From what I have read on the MSDS reports ARP thread lube is mixture of high temp grease (possibly moly), graphite and a few other things. Moly-lube by itself won’t have graphite in it. (At least the MSDS sheet I saw didn’t mention it?) That can make a big difference on how much torque is actually applied to the fastener.
I read the only reason ARP uses the black oxide coating is for appearance and corrosion control. But the coating itself added a lot of friction when torquing fasteners. So they use their special ARP lube for this reason.
Also read an article on rod bolt stretch with different lubes. When testing rod bolt stretch with the oxide coating removed using ARP thread lube and suggested torque the bolt would actually overstretch. When they tested the same bolt with the oxide coating and ARP lube it was in spec. When they tested an oxide coated bolt with motor oil and torqued it to spec it was under torqued.
So I’d guess 80ftlb with moly-lube alone (no graphite) and 80ftlb on ARP fastener lube will stretch the bolt different amounts. Maybe that’s why some are breaking at 75-80 and others are not?
The china studs I bought were from Alper motorsports? They suggest using ARP lube and 70ftlbs. Who knows where they got that information from though. Wish someone with the means would test the stretch of these bolts with a specific lube and torque. If I had the means I would. I'll donate a china head stud kit if anyone can.
These are the studs I bought.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221332526450...84.m1423.l2649
Hope to be finishing up the heads/topend this weekend with china studs.
Found a few things I thought were ODD. (or didn't understand)
ARP and the China studs are made of 8740 “Chrome Moly” steel. (thought it was chromoly?)
China studs claim 205,000psi strength. (is that tensile?)
ARP studs claim 190,000psi strength.
Does the “PSI strength” really even mean anything? Does it mean the china studs are more brittle and will stretch less than an ARP but have stronger overall tensile strength? Or does it mean they will stretch more before failure? Anyone know?
From what I have read on the MSDS reports ARP thread lube is mixture of high temp grease (possibly moly), graphite and a few other things. Moly-lube by itself won’t have graphite in it. (At least the MSDS sheet I saw didn’t mention it?) That can make a big difference on how much torque is actually applied to the fastener.
I read the only reason ARP uses the black oxide coating is for appearance and corrosion control. But the coating itself added a lot of friction when torquing fasteners. So they use their special ARP lube for this reason.
Also read an article on rod bolt stretch with different lubes. When testing rod bolt stretch with the oxide coating removed using ARP thread lube and suggested torque the bolt would actually overstretch. When they tested the same bolt with the oxide coating and ARP lube it was in spec. When they tested an oxide coated bolt with motor oil and torqued it to spec it was under torqued.
So I’d guess 80ftlb with moly-lube alone (no graphite) and 80ftlb on ARP fastener lube will stretch the bolt different amounts. Maybe that’s why some are breaking at 75-80 and others are not?
The china studs I bought were from Alper motorsports? They suggest using ARP lube and 70ftlbs. Who knows where they got that information from though. Wish someone with the means would test the stretch of these bolts with a specific lube and torque. If I had the means I would. I'll donate a china head stud kit if anyone can.
These are the studs I bought.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221332526450...84.m1423.l2649
01-17-2014, 03:57 PM
#58
Did you use actual moly-lube or ARP thread lube?
Hope to be finishing up the heads/topend this weekend with china studs.
Found a few things I thought were ODD. (or didn't understand)
ARP and the China studs are made of 8740 “Chrome Moly” steel. (thought it was chromoly?)
China studs claim 205,000psi strength. (is that tensile?)
ARP studs claim 190,000psi strength.
Does the “PSI strength” really even mean anything? Does it mean the china studs are more brittle and will stretch less than an ARP but have stronger overall tensile strength? Or does it mean they will stretch more before failure? Anyone know?
From what I have read on the MSDS reports ARP thread lube is mixture of high temp grease (possibly moly), graphite and a few other things. Moly-lube by itself won’t have graphite in it. (At least the MSDS sheet I saw didn’t mention it?) That can make a big difference on how much torque is actually applied to the fastener.
I read the only reason ARP uses the black oxide coating is for appearance and corrosion control. But the coating itself added a lot of friction when torquing fasteners. So they use their special ARP lube for this reason.
Also read an article on rod bolt stretch with different lubes. When testing rod bolt stretch with the oxide coating removed using ARP thread lube and suggested torque the bolt would actually overstretch. When they tested the same bolt with the oxide coating and ARP lube it was in spec. When they tested an oxide coated bolt with motor oil and torqued it to spec it was under torqued.
So I’d guess 80ftlb with moly-lube alone (no graphite) and 80ftlb on ARP fastener lube will stretch the bolt different amounts. Maybe that’s why some are breaking at 75-80 and others are not?
The china studs I bought were from Alper motorsports? They suggest using ARP lube and 70ftlbs. Who knows where they got that information from though. Wish someone with the means would test the stretch of these bolts with a specific lube and torque. If I had the means I would. I'll donate a china head stud kit if anyone can.
These are the studs I bought.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221332526450...84.m1423.l2649
Hope to be finishing up the heads/topend this weekend with china studs.
Found a few things I thought were ODD. (or didn't understand)
ARP and the China studs are made of 8740 “Chrome Moly” steel. (thought it was chromoly?)
China studs claim 205,000psi strength. (is that tensile?)
ARP studs claim 190,000psi strength.
Does the “PSI strength” really even mean anything? Does it mean the china studs are more brittle and will stretch less than an ARP but have stronger overall tensile strength? Or does it mean they will stretch more before failure? Anyone know?
From what I have read on the MSDS reports ARP thread lube is mixture of high temp grease (possibly moly), graphite and a few other things. Moly-lube by itself won’t have graphite in it. (At least the MSDS sheet I saw didn’t mention it?) That can make a big difference on how much torque is actually applied to the fastener.
I read the only reason ARP uses the black oxide coating is for appearance and corrosion control. But the coating itself added a lot of friction when torquing fasteners. So they use their special ARP lube for this reason.
Also read an article on rod bolt stretch with different lubes. When testing rod bolt stretch with the oxide coating removed using ARP thread lube and suggested torque the bolt would actually overstretch. When they tested the same bolt with the oxide coating and ARP lube it was in spec. When they tested an oxide coated bolt with motor oil and torqued it to spec it was under torqued.
So I’d guess 80ftlb with moly-lube alone (no graphite) and 80ftlb on ARP fastener lube will stretch the bolt different amounts. Maybe that’s why some are breaking at 75-80 and others are not?
The china studs I bought were from Alper motorsports? They suggest using ARP lube and 70ftlbs. Who knows where they got that information from though. Wish someone with the means would test the stretch of these bolts with a specific lube and torque. If I had the means I would. I'll donate a china head stud kit if anyone can.
These are the studs I bought.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221332526450...84.m1423.l2649
01-17-2014, 05:58 PM
#59
Hopefully these are better than the eBay ones I bought last year which were total junk. One snapped in the bottom of the block and was hard to retrieve. Do a search on here about eBay head studs andmy nightmare with these. I am all about saving money but if these are of the same quality I will pass.